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http://www.sskrplaw.com/publications/informed.html

My Prayers are with all of you. God Bless you.

re; Brooks Black case

This is a message to the person who wrote to me on December 29. I don't have e-mail right now because I live so far in the country. I'm waiting for PGE tio come and put poles in so I can have electricity. I'm using a friends computer in the meantime. OK............. yes, what you said about Sarah is true. My sister also sat by Sarah and said the same thing. She had never met Sarah and didn't realize that she was the soon to be ex-wife of Brooks.
Remember she thought she was going to be the recipient of Brook's $250,000 life policy. I just can't get that out of my mind. Along with the poem Brooks wrote referring to "she would get hers when he was high above". There's also the fact that she told one of Brook's friends when he asked if she had seen him "I hope he's dead in a ditch". And don't forget that Sarah also told Brooks that she had connections to people who could kill him. I still have Brook's note that is in his own handwriting. Brooks was clearly concerned about the threat. It's been about four or months since I wrote to the AGs office asking him to look closer at Brook's case. No word yet.

Whoever wrote the Dec. 29 message, please post your name and email address. I would like to talk to you. My temp. e-mail address is wildlife@Phreaker.net (You do have to capitalize the P)
Evelyn Webster Brook's mother

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index680.htm

Roberta, I went back and read in more detail the earlier posts, including the "post" that she is supposedly accusing you. None of us knows about any of the other emails the two of you had exchanged so its hard to make an assumption that she is acusing you, the way I read it was that she was wanting to know what happened with a key piece of evidence. Again, I don't know what else has been said.. But, just from what I read on this site (althought, I have read the "Twisted Badge" story)I didn't get that from the email. And just to play devils advocate... I am a writer and I don't think its fair that you had put her real name and info on here, since she is writing under a pseudonym. And issues you have with her identity should probably be taken up with her personally. And again, I do not know the whole story, that is just what I am getting from the limited amout of information on here. And if you didn't hire her how can she be "fired" if the information she is in posession of is public record. I am very sorry for your loss and in no way trying to cause any additional stress, just curious. Thank you, Barb

I'd like to add one thing to the helpful information below: Send your letter CERTIFIED with RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED. Otherwise, you'll have no proof that your request was ever received.

When requesting documents/reports under the Freedom of Information Act you have to be very clear what you want. It has to be mailed to the person in charge of Public Information (Certified Mail) There is usually a charge for the copies, but not always.
Sometimes you have to make the request to more than one agency. For example, the coroner should have a copy of the autopsy report, etc., and will require a separate request. In the request specify you are requesting: Every item contained in the file, including, but not limited to all handwritten notes, a complete copy of documents, reports, tape recordings, photos, a copy of all final reports and all drafts & notes, E-mail & Faxes, correspondence letters to other agencies, and any individual connected with the investigation into the death of ___________________ on _______

The sheriff's department will require a separate request as well as the police department.
Check what the procedure is for your state on the Internet

Look in the local phonebook for the correct address to mail the request otherwise your request could be ignored.

The Freedom of Information Act is designed to access information and should be a formal request. Questions and concerns will not be answered. Each state is different, but all states have a time limit by law to provide the requested information to you.

Hope this is helpful

Anyone who has not requested all documents under the Freedom of Information Act should do so. You will be very surprised what you didn't know.

I did not hire her. I never even asked for any royalities. I just wanted to know the truth and closure.

I put the reason on the real crimes site some posts back. Her whole post is there.

Roberta, Was Kat "hired" to write the book?? From your earlier posts it appears as though you had been behind it up until now, what is the problem??

I wish I had this information before I went into the Police Dept again asking for Records on the Heindl brothers Sharon. I will go in again tomorrow and ask for autopsy reports, police reports, photos at the scene and autopsy photos and any written statements that should be part of the police reports. I will ask for all reports from the city, county and state officials. They should have the time that police took custody of my son’s bodies and the time, place and person that they were taken to for the autopsies. They should also tell the time the boy’s bodies were released after autopsies and to whom they were released to and the time my sons bodies arrived at the funeral home or crematorium. Thank you Gregg for helping find justice for Robert and Ben. I know you are there behind your Mom and Dad. May God bless all of you whether in the flesh or spirit!

Roberta, You have to ask for the autopsy reports, police reports, photos at the scene and autopsy photos and any written statements(should be part of the police reports). Make sure to get all reports from the city, county and state officials.

They should have the time that the police took custody of your sons' bodies and the time, place and person that they were taken to for the autopsies. They should also tell the time the boys' bodies were released after autopsies and to whom they were released to and the time your sons' bodies arrived at the funeral home or crematorium. From there you can ask the questions, whether you get any answers is yet to be seen. Once you have these documents then you can get a grasp on what is missing from this puzzle. Those are the legal documents and they won't answer anything just out of the blue.

Hope this helps, Sharon aka Gregg's Mom

Good morning everyone,l
I just got back from the Police Station and would like to share my questions concerning my children with you all. At the Police Station they didn't have information from Ramsey Medical Center so she gave me a photocopy request and I wrote on it what I need is on Freedom of Information act which is stapled with this request. For my safety and well being I am sharing with everyone:
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT.
There are records I am requesting under the freedom of information act!
These are records of what happened to my children on 8/30/1993.
The records I am requesting are from the Coroner Jim Dalbesio-complete records including why he sent my childrens organs to Ramsey Medical Center without my permission. I want to know where he took my childrens bodies and why was Ben’s body taken to Heindl Funeral Home in Prentice for autoposy that I was told was done at Ramsey Hospital. I want to know what happened to them and why they are not in the Hillside Cemetary. I did not request an autoposy for either of my children. Nor did I give permission for Cremating the bodies or have their organs put in someone else!

Next I request all records for Robert Moore and where and when the autoposy was done on him. I want all records for Benjamin’s autoposy and who was present and what was done to his parts and who got them.

I want all information from Donald Gorrie who is Micheal McGee’s boss on both of my children. I request all of Michael McGee’s records on Ben’s autoposy at Heindl Funeral Home.

I want all the records from Private type Tom Bombrock and all Immunogenetics he performed and the blood group records of both my children. http://www.redcross.org/donate/tissue/relgstmt.html#Jehovahs

I want all records from Susan Roe.

All records from Timothy Gould

I want to know why there were no reports on the small blood spot on the right forearm of Robert Moore.

I also want to know why blood like material was on Ben’s Thigh region.

I want to know why none of the parts of my children were sectioned at autoposy.

Last but not least I want to know why there was no final autoposy and why Ramsey Hospital had no records of both boys Robert and Benjamin Moore.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A California funeral director has been charged with 156 counts of embezzlement and interfering with human remains following revelations that he had made US$400,000 in the past year selling body parts from 81 corpses intended for cremation to biotechnology researchers, reports the Sydney Morning Herald. There is no word of charges being laid against the researchers who funded his body snatching.

Michael Francis Brown had been running his Lake Elsinore funeral home for six years when, in February 2000, he started Bio-Tech Anatomical to funnel samples from bodies donated to science to research companies. Almost immediately he began helping himself to the tissue of those who had not consented to dissection, without the knowledge of their bereaved relatives.

Brown's arrest follows revelations of similar practices at the Los Angeles County coroners office and at Sydney's Glebe Morgue. No charges were laid against the government employees involved in these abuses.

A pathologist at the centre of similar scandals at Alder Hey hospital in Liverpool, UK and the WK Grace Health Centre in Halifax, Canada was given 12 months probation by a Nova Scotia court in July, 2001.

The worldwide increase in biological theft is being driven by the huge profits to be made in the highly speculative biotechnology market. Patents for DNA sequences are traded for astronomical sums even when it is far from clear what function these sequences perform.

The biggest players in the biopiracy boom are governments themselves. Increasingly they are moving to protect their markets by prosecuting private biopirates even as they legislate to permit their own theft of citizen's tissues. If Brown had been the director of a state crime laboratory he would have broken no law, as most US states permit the sale of samples from their DNA testing programs for 'research or educational purposes'.

The governments of Iceland and Tonga have already sold the DNA databases of their entire populations to multinationals without the consent of the donors. For Iceland the deal was worth US$200 million for the genetic records of less than 250,000 citizens - over US$800 per profile.

The UK government is currently considering annual auctions as a way of profitting from the medical samples of those using its National Health Service.

The forensic testing laws in most Australian states contain built in loopholes to allow the onsale of DNA samples and profiles to private enterprise. For example, subsection 3(5) of the NSW Crimes (Forensic Procedures) Act redefines 'destroy forensic samples' to mean 'remove the label showing who it came from'. Once deidentified the data and samples are legally considered to have been destroyed and may be freely passed on without penalty.

This kind of 'deidentification' is also the method preferred by the Sydney Red Cross Blood Bank when it passes donated blood onto government and private enterprise without the knowledge of donors. Once deidentified it becomes impossible for the true owner to make a claim against anyone seeking to commercially exploit their biological material.

"As the biotechnology market bubble swells governments are increasingly seeing their people as tissue farms to be harvested at will", says Justice Action's forensic science spokesman Michael Strutt. "We should all be asking ourselves whether the hyperbolic promises made by promoters of DNA testing are nothing but a cover for the naked commercial exploitation of our genetic heritage".

Thank you Sharon,
I will do that tomorrow. I am sick of waiting and wondering and worrying. I will go to the Police Station and request the information and records of Donald Gorrie and Michael McGee and Susan Roe and the rest of the records from Jim Dalbesio the Coroner from Price County. I have already requested the records from Tim Gould, and Jim Dalbesio but got nowhere. I know they knew exactly what happened. I am sure if my name was George Bush I wouldn't be just put aside. I have requested the bag that was in Ben's car which had
things in it to remove parts and eyes but again no response. I guess they "lost" it. They are quite good at loosing things you know! It is like being the mother is not very important and the mother is just someone to forget. Another person I will request records for is Tom Bombrock. And thank you for reminding me to get the records from Regent Hospital. Strange but in the Dayna Lord case there was parts missing from a baby.
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=05CC57A45778642D21E378B8C8987641.render3?countyNo=50&caseNo=1996CF000008&cacheId=CD65D280A7BEF4EFCCE8F9D59E0B5D3C&recordCount=1&offset=0

Roberta, Sorry, I didn't answer you sooner but had to go to work. Ramsey Medical won't give you the reports you have to go through you county sheriff's office or local police. They will have to get them for you.

If they refuse just tell them about the freedom of information act. Under this they have to give them to you. Be prepared for a fight. Sharon M aka Gregg's Mom

regarding the post on michael austin's new job at kohler. thank you for letting us know this. hopefully he's not carrying a gun in this job. if you would be willing, please let us know how you knew. melinda wagner

According to our lawyer, Marshal Tanick of Mansfield, Tanick and Cohen law firm in St Paul that the freedom of information act makes it so that it is public information. No one can get the autopsy report while the case is going on. Most people have to ask the county, which the person died in. We got our autopsy report through the Clay County Sheriff's office.

According to Ramsey Medical Center, they do not give out autopsy reports except to the investigating officials. Anyone can request trial transcripts, autopsy reports, etc basically anything our tax dollars have paid for is public information. Sharon M aka Gregg's Mom

I am sorry Sharon for your loss and sure do understand how you feel. According to my lawyer they cannot give autoposy unless there is permission from the parents which in my children's case there was no permission. That is one of the questions I was asked and I said NO, I did not give permission. I did call Ramsey and just got through talking to them and they said there are no Specimens and that they stopped taking Specimens. I know how hard it is to deal. It seems we have no control of what happens to our loved ones bodies and when you buy a grave site you expect your loved one is there. There are supposed to be blood spots that were on each of my children that "seem to be gone."

We never asked or signed for an autopsy, that is decided by the officials, such as police, sheriff's dept, MNBCA etc. This happens in most unattended deaths or accidents. The whole body is usually sent for the autopsy. I hope you can get the specimens but when we asked Dr. McGee for whatever he had left of Gregg he told Sheriff Bergquist that he had destroyed the samples he had taken. He told the sheriff that it was Standard Operating Procedure after 3 years, we have some very serious questions about that. We don't have any proof of this other than Sheriff Bergquist told us. We asked for a letter stating specifically that and were told that they would send one but have never received it.

All I can say is good luck. They do and say whatever they want and the only recourse for us is to get an attorney which costs money that we no longer have because we have spent it on lawyers, private investigator, another autopsy etc. Rather a nasty little circle that the powers that be have set up to keep their secrets, secret. Sharon aka Gregg's Mom

Sharon,
Here in Price County it is the Coroner who decides if parts go to Ramsey Hospital. If Ramsey Hospital only gives autoposies I never asked for an autoposy. Jim Dalbesio is the Coroner but Mike McGee did the autoposy at Heindl's Funeral Home in Prentice. I think I am going to call and ask Ramsey for the Specimens that were retained in formalin for possible examination at a later time. I have proof with McGee's signature on it. The double edge sword will end up in the boys favor and shame on any person who twists the truth as they will be found out.

Here, it is the county sheriff or the local poliece that decides if the body of accident, unattended deaths, etc go to Ramsey Medical Center. I don't think that it is a hospital at all but strictly does autopsies. In our case it was not Dr. Michael McGee that decided what was to be put on the death certificate but our county coroner Dr. Rogers (at the time of our son's murder). He did not consult with Dr. McGee but marked it as he wanted to. Dr McGee is now officially our county coroner. We learned from the local paper "The Forum" that Dr. McGee was now officially our county coroner 2 days after we received the preliminary autopsy report from the 2nd autopsy in January 2 years ago, we have no way to know if this was a coincidence or something else. They aren't volunteering this information.

Btw, I saw the post further down where you told Kat that you wanted the pictures documents etc back some given to her by you and others she had obtained on her own. I'm sorry to tell you that you have no choice in this matter. As with anything the "freedom of information act" is a double edged sword, no longer can they withhold any information from us (the family of the victim) but this also makes the information available to the public. In otherwords anyone can get this information. This includes police reports, autopsy reports, crime scene photos etc.

Anyone that wants can write a book with this information and there is no recourse. Since you willingly gave information to people you have no way of stopping it. Ask any attorney? Of course another double edged sword, it'll cost you. Sharon M aka Gregg's Mom

There are so many persons on this site who were called suicide. It is obvious to me that murders are covered up under suicides. Does anyone know that it is the coroner who decides if parts go to Ramsey Hospital? How many of all the murdered people called suicide was an inquest about why all these suspicious deaths?

hi there let me start by saying that i am lost for words
i am a mother and my son is missing and his name is jess and he has been gone for alittle over 4 months jess is 37 and also a father of kids he loves very much he is married and had a good job he works for jeep in toledo and has been at his job for almost 17 years and loved his work and all of us jess got into drugs i didnt think he was into them very bad jess call his sister on thanksgiving he told her that he was going to kill him self we then started looking for him his sister found his car at a motel and a room that he had rented there was some pill bottles that didnt have anything in them and what look like a note that he was going to write to his wife her name is jo and all the note said was jo when then started looking and called the police they are not being much help at all we do have a missing person report on him we have been told that he is dead by people on the street but know one will help us at all there is alot we know but there is alot we are not sure about we need your help if you can help all i can say is please please try to help up if he is dead we want his body so that we can put him to rest could you ever dream what its like to have a son that is missing and not know were he is its the bigest lost in the world please write me back at njones9809@aol.com or at pebblestone4@aol.com thank you and please and god be with you

Although my family is not the victim of death caused by or [not] prevented by APD, we have had close to a lifetime of extreme pain caused by MANY injustices from Albuquerque's law enforcement circle. It has been so extreme and numerous that I now, an upper-middle-class professional, have no respect or faith in our police, and grunt when I see my young son playing with police toys. APD has gone out of their way to victimize everyone in my God-loving, peaceful family, including my dying mother, for as long as I can remember. I do honestly believe that [almost all of] APD's members are interested in their power trips over unthreatening, trusting (and unfortunately naive) citizens, more than actually protecting these innocent people whom they take advantage of for their gain, entertainment, and egos (insecureties).

Response:FROM REAL CRIMES:

We'd appreciate receiving a personal e-mail with the details of your situation. A number of other Albuquerque residents have contacted us with similar information, and it's beginning to seem that the same police officers are involved in many of these occurrences.

I am Roberta's older sister, Marilyn. Over the course of our lives, we’ve shared an extremely close relationship— and have thoroughly discussed Roberta’s tragic loss a countless number of times. With everything that I know, I will vouch for my sister all the way in her search to find the truth of just what happened to her two young sons, how they died, and who is responsible. Just think of how much saner the world would be if all citizens required accountability from our well paid police, investigators, lawyers, prosecutors, etc. in our "justice" system. A long hard look should be taken at this horror going on right under our own noses. We owe Roberta every bit of our support and a big thank you for all her hard work, determination and unending perseverance in finding closure for herself and bringing to light the horrible corruption which is beyond most people's belief.

This is Roberta with an important message to Kat. As I told you Kat I don't want pictures of my killed children out in public. I want you to return all including crimescene pictures from the Police. I never instructed them to give you pictures. I want them returned. I also want my two documentaries to be returned. As I have told you before those pictures and everything goes with them BELONGS AT THE TRIAL IF OR WHEN SOMEONE IS CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW! PLEASE RETURN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I WILL SEND YOU A REGISTERED LETTER TO THIS EFFECT.

RE: Natalie Wagner Case

Michael Austin was just hired as the head of security for the Kohler Company in Kohler, Wisconsin. They are in the business of customer service. Perhaps someone should call them and tell them about Mr. Austin's past. I am sure they don't even know. Phone: (920) 457-4441

Hello,
This is Roberta and possibly I can clear up some of the things. I have a wonderful, supportive friend who wrote the last email. Katherin Jewels or Kat Peters is the lady from Houston Texas who has been writing the book "Brothers Silenced." She was the person who wrote my story with Mike Madigan of twisted badge. I was quite distressed with being accused of having something to do with my sons deaths and I can certainly understand what Pat and John Ramsey as with my children hospital Records were missing. Actually I did not hire her. Actually I phoned her with my phone card to save her money. She is terribly hostile and blames my family. She has no right to incinuate things WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF. I think it is quite possible she is a Jehovah Witness lawyer and we know how the "good old boys" like to twist truth. Or working for one to discredit me and my family who have already been through hell and back. I am very thankful for everyone who understands and the support from all of you who have been through it and know! Also yes, she has indeed written terrible emails that I could share but won't.

I'm confused by that last post, talking about very insensitive e-mails that "she" is sending to "you." Who is "you"? Is that post meant for Roberta? Is the "she" that you refer to a newspaper reporter or a private detective who is pumping Roberta for information? Are those "e-mails" personal e-mails sent directly to Roberta? If so, how do you know what's in them? Roberta usually identifies herself when she posts on this board and I don't recall her stating that she's receiving nasty e-mail, but maybe she is.

Can you please clarify your post so that those of us who are interested in this case will understand who you mean when you say "you" and "she"??
Also from an earlier post, who is "David"? And who is "Kat" and why is Roberta firing her? Is she the same person who wrote up this case for the Twisted Badge?

I have another comment on the Robert and Ben Moore case:
It is not the fact that she is questioning things which is the problem. Of course she needs to ask some very searching questions, and this is to be expected of somebody who is investigating thoroughly. It is just that she seems to be sending you some very insensitive emails where she, and not other people, is making some very serious allegations against you. This is not right. It is not ethical, and it is just plain out of order.

I don't know who her advisors are, but I think they are very poor. Any psychologist worth their salt will realise that at the time of an exceptional trauma people can and DO go into a state of mind where they appear very calm. It is as though reality takes on a movie form. ANY psychologist, and any lay person can read the ample research which is available out there which will support this. This should be BASIC knowledge to any psychologist, whether they be practising or not!

Also in the early stages of trauma there will be something which gets blamed, and then as more fact emerge the blame can (and does) shift elsewhere, and this goes on until the real picture emerges, because your brain will just be searching and searching for real answers, to the point of insanity. Again, this is basic knowledge which any psychologist should be aware of. If they are not, then I would question their qualifications!

At the end of the day I just found her posts and allegations highly offensive and based upon pure assumption.

Again this is Roberta
I do not think John Moore killed the kids! I think that what kind of guns were used to kill the kids needs to come into the light!

centurytel.net
From: "Kat & August"
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one of the things i am having a hard time getting straight to write about is the butter knife.

here's why; she says the officer told her and john the last time he talked to them as he was closing the case, they had found a butter knife on the scene. this is not in the police report anywhere and was not originally sent to the crime lab.

but, i did see a butter knife on some of the evidence photos.

now, she found a butter knife inside the car, with pat knaack. then she later on (there is a dispute as to how long) took it to the police station and confronted the sheriff. she got angry and threw it in the trash. that is the last time she saw it......

how can this be figured out?

keep in mind, she always kept a butter knife in her truck for lunches when she was in the woods working (she told me this). could this have been the same knife on the scene because she knew the gun jammed and there would need to be something there to remove shell if the boys killed themselves or no one would believe the did it......(which they didn't).

on the videos, she is adamant from hour one, that the boys killed themselves because they hated school.
then she turns to the jehovah's witnesses. she always tried to make john moore seem guilty. and he may be, who knows.....

i believe she has an obsession about this religion to the point almost of insanity.

A message from Roberta,
If a person can fire someone who she feels wants to find the truth about her murdered children indeed she would and I do. You are fired Kat! You cannot make up false statements. I am going to delete you from all my emails. You do not have permission to write a book called brothers silenced. I want my name and everything I said not to be included. I am not afraid of the dark places-as whoever killed my children drove me to look into them. I think I will share your last email so all will know the truth! I need someone who cares about children and people to help me.

a message on the Robert and Ben case:


OH - MY - GOD !-!-!-!-!

Again - this just proves the point of my previous mail. She sees the JW thing, and then stands still at the image of you + JW = Obsessed.

Why doesn't she start asking questions as to WHY are you obsessive about it? What is there in the Watch which keeps you looking there? This is how these bastards keep getting away with it. People just don't want to face up to the reality that these religions and cults are fronts from something far more sinister, that the occult are using these organisations for all kinds of devious things. They ARE using mind control and goodness knows what else to conceal murders and rituals.

You know, I despair of humanity. They really don't want to take that first step into looking into the real dark side of the human race. It is only people like us - who have been the victims of the cults who have even the slightest clue as to what is going on out there, and then we get labelled paranoid or even worse. Yeah right. We are the ones who are paranoid when it is them who refuse to even take the lid off the furnace and see the first sparks who are paranoid. If you ever find anybody with enough strength to go that extra mile, I'll be very surprised. You are just wasting your time with these people and going round and round in circles.

It seems that the people who do know what goes on, are too absorbed in focusing on the whole world and getting the message out there, that you are being left out. I think people like David take the view of let's expose the whole scene and then everyone will benefit, which is right. Whereas concentrating on one individual case is not going to expose the whole lot, which is what it is going to take to get people to wake up.

No, you are not alone. There are millions upon millions who have had their lives tortured, lost their lives etc because of them. I know it doesn't help you yet, but I think what David is exposing will wake some people up eventually, and then somebody might have the guts to really and properly investigate your individual case. Until that day comes, I really don't hold out any hope. Not with those people. They are too blinkered :-(

This is Roberta
I would like to comment on the story of my children on your site. There was only one gun that was owned by my X husband. It was not a Remington Rifle. It was a H Piefer single shot Rifle that shot .22 short shells-not .22 long shells. In the police files there is only one mention of a gun and that is what did go to the crime lab. It was a single shot long rifle that jammed. The only thing that was Remington was the two spent shells that were on the scene that were shot from that gun. As of 12/2/1993 the Price County Sheriff heard nothing from the crime lab concerning the gun!

My Battle for Russell
A fragment of the story

When this First Happened and I saw the evidence and pictures, and realized this was a murder my immediate response was to Show Bloomfield police that there was a group that wanted him dead and had made threats, and had been involved in another murder. When I sent the family to ask questions to Det. Whitaker, He could not and would not answer any questions. He just said “Look I’ve ruled this as suicide and that’s that”. He called Sylvia when they left and warned her that questions were being asked.

I called Senator Pete Domineche’s office. They informed me that they were only involved in Federal Government not state. They had me contact the Lt Governors office. Diane Dinesh. You know the one that care’s about kids. They put me in touch with Carlos Acosta. I sent him two or three different batch’s of evidence and information. He later called me back and asked if it would be alright if he got the Attorney Generals Office involved in this. I told him that was my next choice. He said “I’ve been talking to a Special investigator by the name of Karen Yontz and she will be contacting you.” He said he was sending her the information. I waited for the Phone Call. About two weeks later I’m looking at the News paper, and read a story,” Special investigator Karen Yontz Killed in the streets of Albuquerque by local police.” I had another person call me from the attorney generals office, saying that he was the Special Investigator in charge. He said “ I was a detective for the Albuquerque police for 18 years, and I can tell you that your nephew did this to himself. Bloomfield Police provided me with a report and everything looks right.” I asked him can you explain the hole in the wall at 4 feet high. He said the report says it was around 6 foot. I told him “if it was 6 that my wife must be 9 because it comes to the top of her stomach”. “Have you seen the pictures?” He said no. So I sent them to him. He stopped responding to my Calls and has not responded or contacted me since. Over one and a half years. I contacted Mr Acousta at the Lt Governors office and was told that the investigator had told him “I’ve already told him his nephew did this to his self, he’s just being a stubborn Uncle.”

Wall after wall after wall. Im sure that everyone else’s Battle is similar. We have young men from this country dieing in Iraq every day in a fight against corruption and for freedom, and some oil <-“My personal opinion” when we have more dieing right here in the states for Drugs, Money, Jobs, and Power. Where does our responsibility really lye? Don’t worry about me giving up that wont happen! A battle isn’t the war!!

Clayton

Clayton,
It is possible to make a change. We were involved in a case where our son in self-defense hit a kid once on the cheek resulting in the death of the boy. Drugs were rampant in our community. The deceased was full of meth and cocaine and was on his way out when he came towards our son. It took us 2 1/2 years of hell, the expense of a jury trial, losing our business and almost losing our home before we triumped. We also couldn't have accomplished what we did without Dr. Ed Friedlander graciously taking our case pro-bono. Dr. Friedlander is one of the truly good people on the face of this earth and will fight for the truth relentlessly. We dealt with what we believed to be an unethical medical examiner. We were working day and night to find the truth. We learned everything we could about meth and cocaine and how it affects people. We researched and we educated our local community, doctors and law enforcement on what we found. Meth and cocaine were epidemic. People were murdered and people were of course dying from the drugs. The drugs were being brought onto the reservation and then distributed throughout the community. We got a new aggressive sheriff and things started to change. The FBI came in at the request of the reservation and started sending people to prison for a long time. We still have plenty of drugs around but it is nothing like it was. Dealers used to deal openly in the parking lot. One guy practically had a drive up window and law enforcement looked away. I guess it just got so horrible that finally people started to wake up. We were threatened with death and still sleep with loaded guns by our beds but at least we can sleep now. The people jacked on meth can become psychotic and there's no telling what they can do.

Don't give up hope. There are good people out there who will help you. It just takes finding the right people. We had people who helped us because they believed we were getting screwed. Medical Examiner's are almost impossible to touch. We've had several reporters say they were interested in our case but no one ever follows through. Medical Examiner's are so insulated. Try getting their records. We raised some extremely interesting questions about Ramsey County Medical Examiner's office and what goes on there. Maybe someday someone will have the courage to investigate and look into the dark corners.

Best wishes and I pray your community will wake up and fight the drugs.
Gail

My fight is not only for my children but for all the pain we have all suffered due to our losses!

Roberta, I think everyone here has been fearlessly fighting for their children for many years. I was just curious as to who put the site there. I was wondering if it was Clayton. Sharon aka Gregg's Mom

It was someone who has been fearlessly fighting for years for justice for two children Sharon!

Who left the cutting edge web site address here? Just curious? Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1364.cfm

Yes, they are all the same. Drugs are the biggest business and the best way to control people. Did you know that the DEA's budget would make them the 5th biggest economy in the world? They have to keep the problem growing to support their habits of living the good life.

you want their attention, just say maybe all drugs should be legal and see what attention you get from it. Think about all drugs being legal?? The crime level in this country would go down the toilet. The real hard core criminals couldn't get out of their crimes by turning in friends, relatives etc. Then again, the prison system is nothing but a business, too. They won't give up that system either. It all comes down to money and nothing else. Human life is just nothing compared to their lifestyles and this monster just keeps growing.

Sorry to be so negative but the facts are just that. BTW, all drugs were made illegal out of hatred and profit. They convinced the public that drugs are what made African Americans angry and violent (of course they used the N word to convince them. I guess they never thought they could be angry about the way they were treated for hundred of years. They illegalized marijuana when dupont wanted to sell nylon and the hemp market wasn't making that possible but presente the illegalization of it to the public as the way it made the African Americans act. One other interesting fact is, the Declaration of Independence is written on hemp paper. How is that for hypocrasy(sp)?

I guess I am off on another one of my rants but some food for thought.

Thanks for letting me vent, Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

Hi Clayton,
I too hope you will continue the battle and never give up until there is justice. It is the same way here in Price County. There are many drugs and those in charge are no help because they too sell drugs. It is a known fact that some of the Police have been on drugs.
The population here is quite sparce and there are many places that Iknow of that have their secrets that they desparatly want to hide. One thing we do know and that is what goes around comes around so it is sure worth it to try to wait. I am sure drugs have a lot to do with the crimes that are unsolved.

Russell Cage:

Are all communities the same as this one??

We are in the San Juan County in Northern New Mexico. I have lived here most all my life. Now more than ever we have More Drugs in this County than you can imagine. If you make a call or stop by a Local Law enforcement Agency and give them a tip on a Drug Dealer, They just Blow it off. There are certain groups that seem to be protected by the law. And they continue to distribute there drugs and violence no mater what happens. Is this because of the Government Funds that are provided to a community like this one. Anti Drug Programs, Substance Abuse, Rehabilitation Programs, New Jail Houses, New Court Systems, Many new Lawyers needed, more police, etc….. That’s a lot of jobs. Maybe if there were less Drugs There would be less money and that’s not good for business. Maybe Drugs simulates Local Government. You know! Job Security! That’s the only Reason I can think of that law enforcement would ignore a good hard tip. Kind of like a war on this planet, Stimulating economy, Just on a local level. Is this the way it is in your communities?? I would like to know. Is it bad where you live? Are there a lot of Government funds sent to your communities for new jobs in this so called fight against drugs and crime?

Clayton

Clayton, I hope your family doesn't fall apart but I know how easily that can happen. Our family is intact at this point and I hope it remains so but I do know of the obstacles that are put in our paths. It is so easy to fall into depression, wonder why this all had to happen to your family and feeling so alone. From there you go to the antidepressants, then maybe alcohol, drugs etc etc. That is just what many hope happens, but don't let it. Many people want us to just go away and leave things alone. To win you have to believe in our murdered love ones and ourselves. To me it boils down to "Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong" we all know the differnece but it is really hard to live by those words.

Remember who your nephew was and still is and know that he would want the truth known. Know there are many people watching and some that actually care. We know that for a fact. We have lost many people that have said they were friends but we have gained many of Gregg's friends as ours. We are known as Mom and Dad to so many because they saw that we believed in and liked (not just loved our son). We also believed in them when they came and told us what they knew.

There are people out there, like many here, that will help to keep you going.

Take care and keep fighting, it's worth it, Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

Hello all you hurting people that can't get justice: OUr currupt system is cold as a rock! Just saying "suicide" gets them out of a lot of work and investigation. The first step I found out the hard way is to see if these people that committed "suicide" have cremation permits if they were cremated. Because I lost two children my pain is double so I know what you are going through. The people that are in charge of our precious children and loved ones couldn't care less. There are still a few in law enforcement that do care such as Mike Madigan of "twisted badge." I think we should all get together and get one giant lawsuit to stop the evil that is done in God's name. If we don't do anything the evil will continue until we are all killed and called "suicide." Imagine the size of the lawsuit we could have if we joined forces?

Yes this system is broken. What people dont relize is that it is hard enough to bury your family. But that dosnt end it when there is corruption. This effects Our familys from that day forward. The distruction that happens to a family when we relize that there is no part of the system that fix's the broken links. My family is still coming apart because no one cares that the Justice system fails daily.

Clayton

You hit the nail on the head Clayton. No one wants to take on the system and no one wants to think they are living with a broken system, that would mean their families aren't safe. Most people want to believe it was our families that were broken not the system. They can live with the fact that it was the victim's fault, therefore, their family is secure because they love each other and this won't happen to them.

I wish you luck and if I can be of any help I will. Our story is here
(Gregg Meissner).

Let us all know how it's going. Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

Russell Cage:

Two years ago today We received the information that our nephew was dead. Its been a fight trying to find out the truth every since. I think a lot of people think like I did at that time. It would not be a problem to find the truth. Surely Someone would investigate. I was wrong. Nobody wants to buck the system. I have been through most parts of the state government, and they are all trying to be blind. We presented information to the OMI Chief about about 9 months ago in an attempt to have the autopsy changed from suicide to undetermined so we could get a outside agency to investigate. We were told to send a written request and they would present it to the board and if all agreed they would change it to undetermined. We sent that 3 different times with no response. Although our meeting with the Chief there were multiple questions that he could not answer, including the question “can you tell us that Russell killed himself? ” People need to realize that the system is designed with parts that will protect the rest. There are kids running around bragging about the murder of Russell, yet there is no one willing to investigate because it may incriminate Police officers for not doing there job. That would look bad for police. This is the way most the cases on this site are. We cant bring any shame to any department. The citizens might not like it and revolt. Heaven help us all for just sitting back and letting it happen.

Clayton

This is Roberta
I tried to contact you but was told information was incomplete. Lois knows my email. I would like to have any information you have on Michael G. McGee and Susan Roe the two pathologists who said they did autoposies at Ramsey Hospital for my children Robert and Ben Moore. Michael G. McGee according to the records I have did an autoposy on little Ben on 8/30/93 and autoposy records say both boys had autoposies on 8/31/93. I would appreciate any information you can find on this.

What is sinister about the closing of Private Autopsy is that they preformed our 2nd autopsy in 2002. I have the paperwork to prove it. There is something real fishy about all this. Why would it show that they closed up in 2000? This is stranger and stranger all the time. Whoever is covering up sure doesn't know how to do it well. Thank you so much for the information. BTW, we have tried to contact Monika Rhollinger several times by phone, registered letter, email, attorney. She did not contact us again. In fact it was another person that got in touch with the attorney, that was when we finally got at least a preliminary report, not sufficient for the money we spent on it.
If you would like to see any of this we can send it to you easily enough. Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

TO: Roberta Moore and Steve & Sharon Meissner

Dear Ones, I am so sorry to read of your losses and the horrors you've suffered on top of them. I did a little research on the internet tonight and found some information regarding Dr. Monika Padilla-Rohlinger that you may be interested in. Dr. Rohlinger's business, Private Autopsy, was indeed dissolved in year 2000 according to the CA Secretary of State's website. I retrieved an address from those official records of 30809 E. Sunset Dr. S, Redlands, CA 92373.

There appears to be nothing sinister with this business closure because Dr. Rohlinger, according to an article in the Desert Dispatch newspaper serving several areas around Redlands, dated March 6, 2002, ran for public office (San Bernardino County coroner), unsuccessfully, against her former employer and incumbent coroner Dr. Brian McCormick. I have saved the article on my hard drive should you wish to read it. The race grew quite nasty with Dr. McCormick accusing Dr. Rohlinger of stealing property of the deceased (not organs).

Additionally, I pulled an inventory list from People Finder with entries as late as 2003 for contact information should you wish it.

I cannot answer your questions regarding theft of your loved ones' organs at Ramsey Medical Center, but surely if Dr. Rohlinger was the first to advise you of it, you should certainly get in touch with her to follow up on any information she may have.

I am currently working on another case that involves theft of hospital/autopsy records and if I discover any connection, even remotely, to your cases, I will post again on this site.

If you wish copies of the saved documents mentioned herein, or if I can be of any other assistance to you, please do not hestitate to email me at djnubee@aol.com.

My prayers for peace are with you!

re: Natalie Wagner/Michael Austin

"Officer" Austin has filed a federal suit against Mukwanago? Absolutely ridiculous. I would be very interested to sit in on his court proceedings or to get a copy of his filed complaint.

I got his Milwaukee records through the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission. There are open records laws that should allow Muk. to release their investigation of him. Interestingly, I believe a general theme of dishonesty is included in his Milwaukee PD past. I think he may be considered a hot potato to any potential employer who discovers even a fraction of his past combined with a federal lawsuit against his last employer not for firing him but for "forcing" him to resign.

Does anybody know about 3 separate hunting homicides in Bay or Gladwin County Michigan? I have reason to believe that a deputy (former head of the Drug Enforcement Task Agency-removed for missing evidence) is very involved in one of them?

I would like to comment on pages missing in the Jon Bonet case and Ramsey Hospital.
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9705/10/briefs.pm/ramsey/

Hi Gail,
Ed Friedlander is indeed helping! God bless Ed Friedlander.

Roberta,
Did Dr. Friedlander help you with your case?
Gail

Hello everyone,
This is Roberta and I have an update for everyone on the Robert and Ben Moore case. I hope Mike Madigan and Catherin Jewel will get to see this update. The old gun that was on the scene of my children's murders was a single shot long Rifle and the name for the rifle was
22 Caliber H. Pieper. It was NOT a long barrowed REMINGTON RIFLE. That is what the local police need to find. Of course there were two spent shells on the scene but that gun wasn't used to kill my children. The police need to find the long barrowed REMINGTON RIFLE and the pistol that shot my children. Then the law has to do the right thing and bring both of them to trial for murder. The only thing about Remington was the spent shells on the scene. The spent shell John Moore had was one that Johnny used to shoot the gun from the porch from where we lived. First of all they have to do the right thing and call it a double murder. Then they have to open the case and find those guns and arrest those responsible.

FROM THE WEB MASTER (to the person who posted two long newspaper articles about the McCracken case):

The Melanie McCracken case has its own separate message board. The articles have been transferred from this board to that one.

The gist of the articles is that a judge has ruled that former New Mexico State Police Officer Mark McCracken will not have to stand trial for his wife, Melanie's, mysterious death. The judge stated that, while a "violent and unnatural death cannot be excluded" there was not enough probable cause to try McCracken on charges of murder and tampering with evidence. He chastised the NMSP for not allowing an outside agency to take over the investigation of a case in which the suspect was one of their own officers.

I would like to comment on people that are missing that could possibly be involved in a triangle of three states. Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Just recently there were two people shot in O'Connell funeral home. One was Dan O'Connell and his assistant James Ellison who was an intern for a year and had a lisence as a funeral director apprentice. In one article it states that possibly it was a murder suicide. Those two men that got killed were taken to Ramsey Hospital Medical Examiners.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5147781.html

Sorry, I forgot to put my name on my posting about Brooks' case .. this is Candice Raner

RE: Brooks Black

Evelyn, I just got caught up on the postings here as i haven't checked in for a while .. the mention of sarah made me remember something .. I sat right behind sarah at Brooks' funeral, my mom (who had met Brooks once) was with me and made a comment about sarah crying so hard but there being no tears .. as if she was faking the crying

Two missing people with the same people questioned and involved. How many more missing people could there be? No one from the party house reported Diana missing and it didn't raise eyebrows?

Regarding the new Harris case.

Reading on the new case of Diana Lynn Harris showing the same people are questioned in the disappearance of more than just Tom Stump is amazing. Did it occur to anyone in the Sheriff's Department there could be a connection? How is it that records are lost or destroyed? Is the court system not adequate to have the storage for the unsolved cases? When papers walk off whom is responsible for it and what is done regarding it?

Did Bernie know Diana Lynn Harris and her children? Has she talked to Diana Lynn Harris's daughter to see if the connection is valid?
If so what was the outcome of that, does anyone know?

IN REGARDS TO RHONDA RENOLYDS CASE,
HERE WE ARE APPROACHING THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY SEASON, IF WE ALL AS CHRISTIANS PULL TOGETHER AND PRAY THAT THE KILLER OR KILLER'S, FINIALLY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE, THEN JUST MAYBE BARB COULD BE AT PEACE, TO PUT THESE EVIL DOERS IN THE SLAMMER WHERE THEY DESERVE TO BE, NOT OUT ON THE STREETS, GLOTING ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH. THEY ARE SATAN POSSESSED, AND OUR LOVING GOD WILL NOT TOLERATE SUCH GOINGS ONS FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE UP TO THERE DEVILISH DEEDS.
MAY GOD BE WITH ALL OF US TO SEEK THE JUSTICE THAT BARB AND HER FAMILY , SO DESERVE.
THIS HAS TO BE A VERY TOUGH TIME FOR BARB AND THE WHOLE FAMILY, I JUST WANT TO ADD THAT WE ARE ALL HERE IN LEWIS COUNTY, PULLING FOR YOU.
GOD BLESS

Brooks Black Case

Hi Adrion. I don't know if Sarah knew any or all of the men. I know Sarah was with Brooks quite a bit your senior year and Brooks worked at Celebrations where one of the three hunters also worked. The wife of another man worked there too. I know Brooks hung out there even when he wasn't working so it seems probable that sarah could have gone there with him or to Jeff's house. There was a large insurance policy that had been left to Sarah until Brooks filed for divorce. Sarah didn't know he had removed her name as the beneficiary as his "Wife" just shortly before his death. All the readings I have had which is many, agree that Brooks was shot by one of the other men. They believe it was in anger and over something Brooks discovered that night and over a discussion over a woman and money.
I've had another reading where it was said that Brooks wasn't the first one killed by this group. Just this week I found out that two of the three men are in involved in a burglary ring. They have a woodcutting business where they go to property owners and offer to cut wood. They case the property, then return to steal chainsaws, farm equipment etc. I heard that some of them were recently caught for doing this in Granite Bay and will soon be going to prison.
In the last three months there has been a notice placed on the mailboxes on Perimeter from the Nevada County sheriff's Dept. warning property owners that a group has been doing the same thing out here in this area where Brooks was killed. I have talked to a few property owners who are convinced that this is the same group that is now burglarizing in Granite Bay. One property owner told me that he and hios elderly wife received a 1:00 a.m. call from one of them saying "Thanks for the equipment". Then he hung up. The property owner went to his barn and discovered that his chainsaws and a few other items were taken. This is the property where Brooks died. The men are very angry with Mr. B who talked to reporter in the Press Tribune and told about the history of illegal activities on the property where Brooks died. I placed a memorial in The Union newspaper on Dec. 2 for Brooks and a reminder that I was still looking for justice and offered a reward for new information. I've also placed a memorial in the Press Tribune (don't know when it will come out). I am very tired, frustrated and feel very defeated but my belief in Brooks and the fact that he would not accidently kill himself, I have to continue to hope someone will come forward to tell the truth or to help me get to the truth. It's a mother's job to never give up hope. Evelyn

Evelyn,
Please let me know how your readings go, my Mom had asked me if you had considered it and even suggested that I go for one shortly after my dream. I continually hope that something will surface that will settle Brooks' case. As far as Sarah, no, I don't think she was involved. I believe she said some horrible, mean and hurtful things during a moment of rage that had very unfortunate timing. Is there any reason to believe that she knew or had any contact with the men involved? What was her behavior like after everything happened? Keep in touch.
Smiles & Hugs,
Adrion

http://www.phillipswi.com/placed/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=187931

Nov. 29, 2004
Brooks Black

My new e-mail address is wildlife55@direcway.com
Anyone with suggestions of people I can contact tomget help with ?Brook's case, please write. Read his case first so you are current on what's already be done. Thank you, Evelyn Webster - mother

Nov. 29, 2004
Brooks Black

Hello Adrion. Thank you for your ideas about Brooks. Thank you for coroborating the fact that Brooks was a trained hunter and Marine who would never be careless with a weapon. The pathologist already varified that Brooks's wound was a "Distant wound". This didn't seem to raise any eyebrows with the Nevada County Sheriff's Dept. I also had Brook's rifle test-dropped by Winchester and his rifle would not ever discharge when dropped, even with the 2-stage safety mechanisms off. They also didn't care about the fact that all 3 of the men lied about some things that they later admitted. I had a dream last night that the dam was about to break and I have a reading coming up with Sylvia Browne in a fes months as well as another by another psychic, Phil Jordan from NY this week. He has been on court tv's Psychic Detective. I've had several other reading by unkonwn psychics who all agree that Brooks was shot suddenly during an anger burst by one of them. I know in my heart that Brooks was killed by one of them and I know that the NCSD has done everything it can to squelch this Truth. I'll update this message board when I have new info. It means a lot to me to hear from people who have read Brook's case or knew Brooks. This helps to keep hope alive. Now that I live in the area where Brooks died, I have a much better chance of getting to the truth. Please write again if you have any more insights. I would also like to know if you have any gut feelings about Brook's death. Knowing Sarah as you did, have you any thoughts regarding her? Love Evelyn

Melanie McCracken case:

Nancy, I'm so happy for you to get another opportunity to get justice for Melanie. We all know it's not recommended to get too excited, but to maintain hope and faith in the idea that the truth always comes out sooner or later. I am praying for justice for Melanie tonight. Evelyn Webster/mother of Brooks Black

Re: MELANIE MCCRACKEN CASE

Retired State Police Lt. Mark McCracken appeared at a preliminary hearing today, Nov. 29, on criminal information charging him with murder in the first degree and tampering with evidence in the August 1995 death of his wife, Melanie. (For background on this case, see the Melanie McCracken case report on this web site.).

This is the second round of charges against Mark McCracken. He had been indicted by a Valencia County grand jury in November 2003, but murder charges were dismissed earlier this year because an investigator for the prosecution was in the grand jury room during testimony. Rather than seek an indictment the second time around, the prosecutor chose to take the case to a public preliminary hearing.

From the start, Melanie's mother, Nancy Grice, pushed for an independent inquiry of her daughter's death. A national medical expert Nancy hired in 1999 concluded that the death was due to "homicidal suffocation." Nancy believes State Police conducted a biased inquiry, overlooking evidence of criminal wrongdoing, because McCracken was a fellow officer. State Police have denied such accusations.

Read the case report and let us know what YOU think.

My cousin's wife, Leslie Porter of West Covina, CA. has been missing for 20 years. See:
http://doenetwork.us/cases/220dfca.html
for her photo & info.
Perhaps if the police had done their work soon enough, the trail would not have gone cold! My father, Mike Porter's uncle, was involved in the search. The West Covina, CA. police did not even look in the trunk of Leslie's car until my father asked them if they had! (Of course she wasn't there). Also, it is reported that *six months later* after Leslie's disappearance, police were seen returning to the apartment and taking fingerprints, etc. It was also reported that some of the police who showed up were very pompous, and didn't take it seriously. This is actually very unusual for this type of crime to not have ever gotten solved. I read once where this is the first time things have gone this way. It is a little reminiscient of the Scott Peterson case. If you would like to discuss this case more, email be at: heart_focus@yahoo.com
KH

Not to forget in any way about all the senseless murders on this site I am wondering if anyone has ever gotten close enough to see if Michael B. McGee has a small tatoo of a BEE on his right hand?

re: natalie wagner case
to the defense attorney that posted on this site on 10/29...Michael Austin resigned from the Town of Mukwonago police dept. the end of october. I was told he was investigated by the police chief of mukwonago and the waukesha county DA was also involved, but I don't know to what extent. The town attorney and chairman will not/can not give me more info regarding the investigation or the circumstances of his resignation. they say that info is confidential. no one seems to be able to give answers. other people have told me that the investigaton of this officer is open record, but the town is telling me it is not. it seems this officer has a lenghty record with the milw pd also. it makes me wonder how he even was able to get a job in law enforcement,and my other concern is that he will go and get another job with another department and cause problems for other people. it makes me so angry that he was allowed to resign instead of being fired!! i wanted him to be held accountable for his wrongdoing!!

any suggestions/comments would be appreciated.

I forgot to mention that Lois can reach me at beamerdreamr@hotmail.com. Thanks, Abby, daughter of Warren Pritchett, Jr.

I was trying to reach Lois, but I lost her email address. I'm Abby the daughter of Warren Pritchett, Jr. I wanted to share with her an article about the man that killed my father. This man is pure evil and yet he continues to destroy people's lives. When is the State of Delaware going to hold this man accountable for his actions? They keep charging him, but he always manages to get off. Is it because they still use him as an informant? He has already plead not guilty to the new set of charges. The case review is on Wednesday and I plan to be there. Hopefully someday this man will be held accountable for his actions. I just hope I'm there to see it happen.
http://www.doverpost.com/PostArchives/11-10-04/index.html

I would like to comment on certain words bloodline people use to control. One is Rock, another is water, river like in the garden of eden. Remember the story where the four rivers came out of Eden and into a head? Another is ley line which is considered sacred where many things happen. We have to look upon these in a spiritual way. God always uses a physical example for a spiritual happening. We all know who the head is. A ley line is usually on a high place such as a hill where energy gathers! There were only two Presidents we have had that weren't the Illuminati. They were John Kennedy and Lincoln that were assasinated and replaced by the illunimati.

Re: Stephen Haar case:

In regard to the message a few posts down from this one, I've heard rumors that Officer Rock Hart was forced to resign from APD because of the Stephen Haar case. Does anyone know if that's true?

Hello to whoever wrote in concerning my children Robert and Ben Moore. Thank you for your prayers and support. My children's blood keeps calling from the ground for justice. There were two documentaries out on the subject. The first one was made by Channel 4 in Minneapolis and called "Children of the Tower." I do not know if you could find this documentary now. The next one was called "Was in murder or was it suicide" made by Kohl Productions.
Witness Inc has one of the segments of channel 4 in Minneapolis in its documentary called Battling over the Children"
http://www.witnessinc.com/battling.htm that still can be purchased. I am sure there will soon be an update on the book. Possibly "Children of the Tower" may be purchased at WCCO TV
http://www.wcco.com/

Roberta,

I live in your area...I didn't remember hearing anything about your sons' deaths, although I was living here and 20 years old at the time. I wonder if it wasn't reported outside the Bee, which I have never received. I am astounded at the patterns or similarities that seem clear in many of the deaths reported on real crimes, and that people in power seem blind to them. But I guess power is the key word there and those in power sadly seem not to care enough.

At any rate, I was wondering if you know when the book will be available? I wish there were more I could do, and I feel so helpless, but please know that you are in my thoughts and when I pray, I will keep you and your boys in mind and offer prayers for all of you.

[from a reader in Ashland county]

My friend Stephen Thomas Haar was murdered in Albuquerque, NM on January 15, 1998. It was a known fact that their was a hit out on Steve Haar aka Beto. I was told by Robert H. Jaramillo several months before that the police were going to kill Steve and that when the time was right it wouldn't matter who was around, they would die too.

When Steve was murdered, everything about this homicide investigation was mishandled. A felon by the name of Travis Daly claimed to have killed Steve in a house full of guns and drugs. They said it was self defence. However, Travis's detailed description of how he killed Steve didn't even come close to matching the coroners report. Yet Steve's murder like many other murders in New Mexico was quickly swept under the rug. His family was given run around after run around for several years in their attempt to find Steve's real killer. Steve's family was made to feel threatend by The Albuquerque Police Department, Detective Rockhart and the D.A. at that time. There was much betrayal adding up to Steve's murder. It's not solved. A five year old could have followed homicide investigation guidlines better. Times didn't match up, witnesses with pertinent information were ignored at their attempts to report. I am ashamed to say that I am from Albuquerque, NM. I miss old Albuquerque - I don't miss the new one! Steve wasn't perfect, but he had rights. Travis was meremly a fall guy who failed at Plan A - Morningside St. No, the cops wanted to make sure Steve would die for sure. Steve was one of three children murdered in the Haar family. I wonder who's child will be killed next?

Rocks don't have hearts!!!

I miss Beto -

To all you detectives out there be very careful if you are looking for a college faturnity you can expect your computer to be "fixed" so you can't forward a message. It is against the law to brake into someone's computer as much as it is to break into a persons house. Where is the law hiding? What have you got to hide?? I was trying to check up on this one http://www.ou.edu/student/greek/alpha-sigma-phi/ASP_symbols.htm Obviously they are trying to "hide" under a big rock! But is the rock big enough to hide you? Let the light shine into that dark place!

Brooks Black Case:

Watching Forensic Files on Court TV a so called shooting accident occurred similar to Brooks case. Two witnesses to the shooting reported to the police, while handing the rifle to the victim the gun accidentally went off. A lie detector test was given to the person handing the gun over and passed the test. Later the other witness changed her story, because the man passed the lie detector test, the police had no proof it was not an accident. The second person was given a lie detector test to see if she was being truthful, and failed. For whatever reason, the police believed her story that it was not an accident even though she failed the lie detector test. Here's the good part! The police took the dead victims clothes, mainly the shirt, to forensics for testing. If a rifle goes off at close range it will leave residue, (gun power, a pattern) changing the size of the entry hole. Forensic tested the rifle at different distances, from close range to being too far to be handing a person a rifle, proving it was not an accident.

Perhaps, if Brooks clothes are in evidence they could be tested to see what the distance is when the rifle discharged. In Brooks case it would/should be very close, and Brooks jacket/shirt should have residue on it. If no residue is present, it would prove Brooks was shot from a distance.

This show also proved that taking a lie detector test is not reliable at all, which we all know. Here the killer passed the test, the person telling the truth failed.

RE: BROOKS BLACK
Evelyn, it was a pleasure hearing back from you and my heart goes out to you. I don't know of a way to get an investigation started but I do want to share my feelings with you. My gut has told me from the instant I found out about Brooks' passing that something was very wrong with the story. He taught me how to shoot and was VERY EXPLICIT about how to safely carry and secure a weapon. As a fellow military member I know also that it would have gone against his training to have his weapon slung over his shoulder and not on safe. I can say from personal experience that it would be very out of character for Brooks to treat a firearm casually. I don't know if this helps in any way but I did feel it was worth mentioning. Take care and stay in touch.
Smiles & hugs,
- Adrion

I HAVE A COMMENT FOR THE NATALIE WAGNER FAMILY. MY PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU AND TO NEVER GIVE UP YOUR FIGHT. YOU KNOW THE TRUTH. I WAS MARRIED TO A ABUSIVE POLICE OFFICER MYSELF. THEY HAVE AN "INNER CIRCLE" AND VOW TO "PROTECT AND SERVE": BASICLLY ONLY EACHOTHER. MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. TRACY

I sure think Funeral Homes should be carefully checked out. I also think that everyone that is on this site that has had a loved one cremated that they all should request cremation permits. We all know what happened in Georgia with all kinds of bodies all stacked up. Our loved ones don't deserve that in anyway.

FOR THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY WHO QUESTIONED MICHAEL AUSTIN aka MICHAEL QUIGLEY (SEE MESSAGE SEVERAL POSTS DOWN):

Natalie Wagner's mother wants very much to talk with you. Please, contact her by private e-mail via Real Crimes.

Re Brooks Black
This is Brook's mom, Evelyn. Thank you for helping me contact two of Brook's friends. Candace and Adrion, thank you for contacting me. I have moved and have a new e-mail address. It is wildlife55@direcway.com. Please give my e-mail address to any of Brook's friends. I would like to contact Tawnya if any of you know how to. Brooks saw her just before he left for Boot Camp Aug. 17, 1998. If anyone has ideas of ways to get an investigation other than going up the chain of command from the Nevada County Sheriff's Dept. deputies to the State Attorney General's office and the Governor, please write to me. I know in my gut that my son was shot in the back by one of the men with him that night. Please read his case and give me any ideas no matter how unusual or strange they may seem. I just can't find the way to motivate anyone to really dig in and I don't have the money to stop working and pursue it as I would if I could. If any of Brook's friends read this, I would love to hear from you. Thanks Evelyn

I was horrified to read Natalie's story this morning. I am a defense attorney who cross-examined Michael Austin two years ago on a simple misdemeanor case and it was the most bizarre hearing I have ever had. While testifying, he began yelling at me and asking me questions. It was disturbing, especially in light of his disciplinary record with the Fire and Police Commission here in Milwaukee. He appeared very aggressive and in my opinion, a loose cannon. I later learned that he left Milwaukee Police and is currently seeking non-law enforcement employment.
Mr. and Mrs. Wagner, I can only imagine your pain and frustration. I am so sorry for your loss.

Response:If you would like to contact Natalie's family directly, you can do so by sending a confidential e-mail to them c/o this web site. They would be very interested in hearing from you.

This is Roberta and I would like to add an update to Kat's book Brothers Silenced. Until I read the latest from Mike and Kat I had no idea a duputy "forgot" to tell Mike about the 911 call I made to the Police at 8:25. I am sure if we looked through police records we could find exactly who that deputy was at that time. John Moore who was first on the scene told me the boys were both dead and the gun was there. He took Lisa and myself back home. Then he returned to the scene. John Moore was not there at 8:25 which was the time of the murders. Another election is in the horizon on Nov 2, 2004. Let us as the people stop this covering up murders at election time!
Get these two murderers out of the street before they kill again! John Moore told me the boys were each one on one side of the road and the other on the otherside of the road WITH THE GUN 10' to 15' away from the boys he said that Mike Roberts saw it that way and I believe him. How many others saw it that way too but are afraid to tell the truth? Let God be found true though every man a liar! When someone moved the gun to make it look like suicide is when the leaves that were on top of the gun disappeared!

This is Roberta,
I would like to add to what Mike Madigan and Kathryn said on the new book Brothers Silenced. I would like everyone to know that Mike Roberts knew right away that my children were both murdered as he said there should be 4 or 5 men working on this case. It was terribly hard on him when he saw what someone had done to my poor children. In fact he had to go see a Counselor because he couldn't sleep many night due to the horror he saw. I wanted the case re-opened so I went to the internet for help. You see Mike had a 10 year old son too and so he could feel my pain. I wonder if that had something to do with his 10 year old son that he suddenly disagreed that it was murder. There are still some good Police left and Mike did the best he could do under the circumstances. I am sure Mike knew there was more than that old single shot Remington Rifle involved. The Police that are in Price County now are not responsible for the case being closed as a double suicide again. However it is up to them to do the right thing and re-open the case as what it really is a double murder of two young children. I am sorry Mike for the pain the two murderers caused when they murdered my children. As I have stated before I did not want my children killed never mind their parts stolen. Thank you Mike Madigan for your help in "What goes around comes around."

So glad to hear your boy's story will be told Roberta! Hugs! Your fight for the truth to be told is finally here.
Gail

Hello everyone,
This is Roberta. I would like to tell you all that Kathryn Jewel will be writing a book on behalf of my two murdered children Robert and Ben Moore. The name of the book will be "Brothers Silenced."
As you read through the book you will come to understand why they were silenced. Keep looking for updates on the www.realcrimes.com site. Her book will be finished by 2005. I would like to thank everyone for all the support.
Love,
Roberta

I have read the latest story about deaths in Wisconsin from Mike Madigan. I think God is testing John! God wants him to do what the BIBLE tells him. He is in the same situation as "JOB" of the Bible.
Who will you choose John? It is up to him to choose the Bible and live. Will you choose the Bible John? Will you be faithful and tell the truth? Here is Mike Madigan's story www.twistedbadge.com

RE: Brooks Black

I am trying to reach Brooks' mom Evelyn, but her email address is no longer good .. Evelyn, please contact me at ranerc@comcast.net

Thanks!! Candice Raner (Tyson's wife)

Response:FROM THE WEBMASTER: We have a mailing address for Evelyn and will forward your messge to her by US Mail.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/3719206.stm

I have an interesting case that our family could use all the help we could get. January 13, 2003, my dad was found by my sister in our family's home shot three times in the head. He was found sitting up against the counter and police say he fell back into the bathroom, even though there was a blood stain on the floor a few feet away from him which shows someone sat him up and placed him with his hands in his lap. The time of death on his death certificate says after 12:00 (noon) but the police say he died about 11:00-11:10 am. He was the only one home. The way he was shot was horrendous. He was shot point blank in the face and twice on the top of his head-like someone stood over him. There was an obvious struggle in the hallway where we found a gunshot in the ceiling. We believe they shot him placed him in the bathroom and shot twice more (but do not know why because the first shot would have killed him) and whoever shot him missed again and shot next to where they sat him up. The police went in with no gloves and did not fingerprint the front door which my sister found open because they said too many officers had touched it. My brother's bedroom window was open when we arrived at the scene but the police say it was not, even though every member of the family asked why it was open. My brother was a drug dealer and turned 18 January 14 which is when he was going to have to move out. He was in the middle of a trial for robbing a dealer by gun point with a few friends. The dealer testified against him but said he was out in the desert because he heard someone had car trouble (yeah). Anyways, we turned into the police the fact that the kid had driven by the home daily at all times and it stopped the day after my dad was murdered. My dad was a devout Christian who devoted his time to his engineer job and volunteering as an interpretor for the deaf community-which was his passion. The day after we recieved a call that the dealer and his brother bragged about what they did and the fact that they were going to make my brother pay. A few months prior someone had come to my brother's window and knocked on it asking him to come out. He told them to identify themself and they would not. They had a hood on. He went in to the living room and told my mom. She flipped on the light outside and they ran jumped into a car down the street and took off. He also had a death threat written on his window a month prior. We believe this was for my brother and my dad should not have been there. The police from day one have said it was my mom because my dad had a life insurance policy. The policy is not a big amount and my mom was the last person to leave the house but the police say they have a 10 minute period where they cannot place her. The girls all were going to lunch and a movie that afternoon. Anyways,from day one they have dismissed the thought that anyone else did this. For two years they have followed us and harassed us. In no way did my mom do this. My dad and her had a good relationship. It just so happens that the head detective had just caught his wife with another man prior to the case so he came in scorned. We have worked with these detectives before. And actually, the night they came to have mom come down and be questioned, they served a search warrant on my grandma's home where the family was staying and my brother had just got out of the shower. They patted everyone down and my brother said he had a pipe in his car. The det who is the brother of one of the two lead det on the case, told him that was the least of our worries and let us all leave the home. My brother was having a cigarrette and they came up and arrested him for possession. They took him to the station and walked him by the room my mom was in and let her see him in handcuffs and told her that he confessed that she did it and he was in on it. They got nowhere with that so my mom was taken back to us and meanwhile the police booked my brother into jail for murder which revoked his bond that he was on for the robbery and then it was changed to posession, but the bond lady in the meantime went in to tell my brother it was revoked and because my brother was not respectful to her, denied the reinstatement of the bond and would let us rebond him out for the 5000.00 we already paid if we paid again but not for 2 days so he could think of his reaction. We did. Anyways, my mom has not recieved the policy and in June we were contacted by the insurance company and told that the case was at the prosecuting attny office and they would see if they had enough to charge her within 4-6 weeks. It is now October and we are just told he has not got to it yet. Can anyone help?

Ed Friedlander is indeed wonderful. He took my case probono. There sure is an awful lot of excellent information on his site. I had no idea Coroners could do autoposies right there at the Funeral Home. I wish I had found Ed 11 years ago! God bless you for your help ED! Now for justice and may it be swift!

The site you posted is the site of Dr. Ed Friedlander. He took our son's case probono and gave us the proof we needed to make our case and prove our son was innocent. Ed is the most generous, giving soul who works to fights injustice. Check out his site...it is a wealth of information.

I would like to give everyone a site that explains autoposies and how they are supposed to be conducted.
http://www.pathguy.com/autopsy.htm

To the person who posted the question below: Your friend's defense attorney shoud be able to answer that question. Depending upon the circumstances, cases can take years to come to trial. It's up to the defense attorney to make sure that doesn't happen unless it's to his client's advantage.

I have been searching on the internet looking for information and i cant find anything. But i have a friend who was accused of a crime that they did not committ, and it happened 3 months ago and he is still waiting to go on trial. How long are they allowed to hold off the trail???? please if anyone knows anyhting about this please email me at juggalette_chicka_4-life@yahoo.com
[Anonamus]

Why kidneys work better from living people:
http://www.ucihealth.com/News/UCI%20Health/kidneytrans.htm

Re: NATALIE WAGNER CASE:

The Sept. 14, 2004, edition of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel carries an expose' article about Police Officer Michael Austin aka Michael Quigley, a suspect in the suspicious death of his girlfriend Natalie Wagner, whose story is on the Real Crimes web site. The web site is credited with helping to bring this information to light.

EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE:

You've heard it said, surely, that in small towns there are no secrets. So in rural Waukesha County, in the Town of Mukwonago, you'd understand some fallout when purported, 10-year-old skeletons are yanked from a closet - in this case, OFF THE INTERNET - and they concern no less than a town cop.

"A lot of people don't like the police," says Grant Turner, town police chief, "and if they can find out anything about us, they will."

In the case of Michael Austin, a town police officer for the past 18 months and, before that, a Milwaukee cop for 10 years, there seems enough wafting smoke fanned by critics that it's a wonder someone hasn't pulled the fire alarm...

Austin grew up in Mukwonago ... where folks might remember him as Michael Quigley - the name he legally changed to Austin in 1995 while still a Milwaukee officer. The change came less than a month after an inquest jury found that Austin's girlfriend, Shorewood Police Officer Natalie Wagner, committed suicide by shooting herself in the head in Austin's presence a year earlier... He shared the name change but nothing about the Wagner case with (the Mukwonago police chief) before he was hired.

Though the medical examiner and police, along with the inquest jury, concluded Wagner's death was a suicide, Wagner's parents raise questions of a coverup on Web sites. One is titled "REAL CRIME, REAL COVERUP AND CORRUPTION BY LAW ENFORCEMENT; REAL FAMILY FRUSTRATION AND HEARTBREAK."

You can read the full article at www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/sep04/258628.asp.

There is another drug called Ketamine that causes someone's heartbeat to slow down. It is used primarily to knock out animals.
It can also make it look like a person is dead. Here is the url so you can look.
http://nmclanna.med.navy.mil/Mids/SELFCARE/drug.htm

This is Roberta. When someone murdered my two children my X husband said someone had shot Ben but Robert had no injuries. He said Robert was white. I have a picture that was in the old car the kids were accused of driving of a "stun gun." It is common knowledge that a stun gun knocks out people. The EMT's said there was no heartbeat. Yet the autoposy says both boys were shot at exactly 8:25 which is the time I called 911. I feel something terribly wrong in your case and hope you will keep looking into it because of all the cover-ups. Double suicide at the same time with a single shot long rifle? A rifle that jams quite easily and the police lady couldn't even pull it out? The detective took 6 minutes in my house in the kitchen under ideal conditions!

Murder Pizza Case:
I submitted the original post. The family does feel that it was murder or some kind of cover-up. The EMTs transported the body (which was suppose to have been dead for two hours) to another county. There were no vital signs at all. The cornoner from another county suspected foul play and the family(not the spouse)ordered the autoposy. Results are pending.

I would like to comment on the last post. It is obvious it wasn't murder but if someone went out of the county there is something quite suspicious in the deal. Some kind of cover-up.

I would like to commit on the case of the lady choking and being sent to another county to avoid the coroner. It sure sounds to me that there was an honest conorer and that someone knows it was murder but is trying to cover-up. I think police and detectives have to be carefully trained to reveal all the cover-ups that are going on all over the world.

You you ever heard of a case where the victim allegedly choked to death, in this case pizza. But the husband called the ambulance and she was taken to another county so the coroner would not know the case. The death is ruled accidental but an autposy is ordered, after a legal fight. Results not know yet. Looking for a pattern for the first of the case--choking, take body to another county.

FROM THE WEB MASTER:

Messages for Diana Harris's daughter should be sent to her by private e-mail c/o the Real Crimes web site.

re: natalie wagner case cop michael quigley aka michael austin
if anyone in the mukwonago area has had problems with this particular police officer...please post on this site or send me a private e mail. i would like to pursue doing something about it!!! so far my own complaints have gone nowhere!! i think that if more people have had situations involving this officer and are willing to come forward with their information there may be a chance that someone will listen and maybe something can get done!!!

Sharon,
They do not have the time the bodies were released or to whom, all they have is the date of exam and the time and the place. Also the Dr who did the exam. Dr. Roe for Robert and Mike McGee for Ben. I do have a lawyer and am going to see him soon concerning this. In spite of all this evidence I have they still call it "suicide." Like you I am investigation poor as it seems noone cares about the parents or justice. I hired three detectives and spent countless painful hours investigating myself. I found out a lot on things from the things the media wrote as the story went from coast to coast. Next I will try to find Minnesota statutes. Thank you for your help.

Roberta, I don't understand about not getting the autopsy report from Dr. McGee. By law they must give them to you under the freedom of information act. By all rights I could write to the Medical examiner's office and receive them. If the case is closed then anyone in this country has the right to them.

I was asking you what time they released your sons bodies from the autopsy and who took custody of the bodies. They state that in every autopsy report. They have to!!! Don't let them railroad you. Demand the autopsy reports from the cops who have closed the case and have listed suicide as the cause of death. If they refuse, tell them if you have to get an attorney they will be paying for a lot more than a simple autopsy report. You have every right to know. They are handing you a line of BS. Just look up Minnesota statutes or your states statutes on the net all the laws are there for you to print out and throw in their faces. Hope this helps, Sharon aka Gregg's Mom

My answer to Sharon,
I did get medical reports from Ramsey Medical Center. The time both of my children "committed suicide" was 8:25. The date was 8/31/93 on Robert's autoposy. On my baby boy Ben's autoposy it says David Heindl had Ben's body at Heindl Funeral Home. Huuum, I wonder what happened to Robert's body?? I wonder why Ben's body was at Heindl's Funeral home at all? Ben's body at Heindl's funeral home on the same day they were killed??? It looks like according to reports my sons bodies were lying behind that old car on the recreational trail until 1:00p.m. Mike Roberts the investagator says, "Upon my arrival at the scene, I met Chief Deputy Gould coming out to the intersection on Spring Rd. He was in William Heindl's car. Mr. Heindl is the director of the funeral Home in Phillips. They had the boys bodies in the back of Mr. Heindl's vehicle. Another article says, "It states that the bodies were transported to Ramsey County Medical Examiner's Office by Chief Deputy Tim Gould and Price County Coroner James Dalbesio because the medical examiner in Madison was on vacation. Wirsing (The sheriff at that time) said that he, Gould and other officers in his department are all involved in the investigation. If all these people investigated the case why can't they tell the truth-that it was a double murder? Another report says Ben's autoposy was 8/31/93. What kind of a Medical Establishment performs an autoposy two times on two different days? I am going to get these records together and send them to Mike. Maybe he can help "What goes around comes around."
So here is who had access to my sons bodies. Price County Police Timothy Gould, my X husband, Michael T. McGee, Heindl funeral home, James Dalbasio, Wayne Wirsing the Sheriff, Susan Roe who did Robert's autoposy the next day. Also the investigating officer Mike Roberts, also other officers in his department. I will never get written reports from Ramsey Medical Center. All that investigated knew there was more than one gun involved. Having to constantly strain with the LAW is tough on us mothers and is wrong and shouldn't be. I never wanted my children's bodies cremated. I never even got to see them when they were killed! I am thankful a wonderful lady is writing a book as more of these horrors have to come out into the eyes of the public. AND JUSTICE DONE FOR THE CHILDREN.

This question is for Roberta Moore, I was just wondering if you got the autopsy report from Ramsey County Medical Center in St. Paul? I know in our report it states who they turned the body of our son over to, which was Det. Bryan Green (Clay County Sheriff's office) and Officer Tom Taylor (Hawley Police dept), it also states that Gregg's body was then deliver to Vigen Wright Funeral home in Hawley. There should be a time that the bodies were given over to the custody whoever picked them up from Ramsey County Medical Center. On ours there was a time stated by the Ramsey Count Medical but no time of the delivery to the funeral home, which we found rather strange.

I have always said that there were 4 organizations that could have disposed or misused my son's organs and they are Clay County Sheriff's Dept, Hawley PD, Ramsey Medical Center or Vigen Wright Funeral home. Not one of them seems to know a thing. No one else had control of Gregg's body but these 4 organziations. One or all are responsible for the loss and damage to our son and yet no one there seems to think they have any responsibility to us or to answer any of questions. It seems we have to get an attorney to force the answers and we are attorney and Private investigator bankrupt. Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tue Sep 7 01:07:39 PDT 2004
Hi, I am Diana Harris's daughter, I would never spell her name Diane, her name is Diana. I have been gone for awhile, and came on to find that someone has pretended to be me. I will get in contact with those who know me.

Thank you Mike,
I am wondering how much politics actually effects murder cases being covered up. Here in Price County when my two children were killed the Police were busy fighting against each other. The Sheriff at that time and the lead detective were having lawsuits against each other which amounted to thousands of dollars to lawyers the county had to pay. Of course it was right at election time. They had no money to go after murderers as they were too busy fighting each other. Now it is election time again on September 14, 2004.

FROM DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE MICHAEL CORWIN, IN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION BELOW:
Roberta,

I really appreciate your support. Yes, there are other democrats willing to support victim's rights. In the State House, where I'm running to be elected, Mimi Stewart and Danice Picraux have carried the victim's rights torch. They have fought the old boy network and changed New Mexico's laws on domestic violence. Were it not for them, there would be no statute against domestic violence, cops would still be arresting the victim along with the batterer and handing the victim a form to sign to get her not to prosecute. Further, batterers would be released from jail without notification to the victim or without providing the victim with enough time to secure a restraining order and seek help from a woman's shelter. These changes have all been accomplished within the past nine years.

This is a critical first step, since men in New Mexico kill their wives and girlfriends at a rate 85% greater than the national average. But more needs to be done so that all murders are investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and that victims will no longer be treated as criminals and criminals as victims.

I have talked to quite a few people in the legislature and they are aware of the press conference held by the 23 Real Crimes families and the important and hard work that those families have done. Mindsets are being changed. But we all need to keep the pressure on by refusing to accept things as they are. Most important of all is to remember that those in the government work "for the people" and those that forget that fundamental law of our land need to be held accountable.

Mike Corwin

Hello Mike,
This is Roberta. I would like to say that I am very happy that you will represent the victims. I will sure vote for you. The victims and their families everyday live in fear of their elected officials.
Can you let us know if there is anyone else in the democratic party who will help the victims? Is there anyway we can get the police and elected officials to help root corruption out of Government? God bless you Mike!

As mentioned several posts down, Real Crimes is sponsoring Michael Corwin as the Democratic candidate for the New Mexico House of Representatives, District 31 in Albuqueque. Mike is running on a theme of victims' rights and rooting corruption out of government.

If any of you have questions for Mike Corwin, please, post them here. He has agreed to respond to them on this message board.

[From:Kelndeb2000@hotmail.com] oh my god! i can hardly beleive what i just read. it seems like science fiction if it didn't happen every day. i admire all of the people who have the courage to come forward to set the record straight, to right the wrongs that have been done to the victims and their families. may you find some peace somewhere and in the end what goes around does come around and may god have mercy on their souls.

This is Roberta. The Mike I was talking about is part of the "Twisted Badge." mike@twistedbadge.com . His last name is Madigan. Here is what he says: "What goes around comes around!"
May God bless the "Twisted Badge" detectives! Also all the honest Police and Detectives that do care for the people!

I'm confused. Who is "Mike of the Twisted Badge"? Is that the same Mike Corwin who the Real Crimes web site is supporting for office or a different Mike?

I believe there is a way! We as people to whom the democracy is supposed to be for have to do a lot of the work as I found out the hard way. We can help by "going over all with a fine-toothed comb"
For those who are running for office to carefully check their records. We can "demand" people who care about others to work for our best interest and the "best interest" of our beloved children.
Like Mike of "Twisted Badge" it is our responsibility to look into thier beliefs. What we need is some more people like Mike who care enough to do the painstaking work of "Getting to the bottom" of some of these cases! My prayer is that more will be done to help the many people that live in fear of the law. Many of the counties and towns are having their elections and the Presidental Election coming up is important for the people. Thank you Twisted Badge Mike for your help! May God bless you and may many people vote for you! We also need to "screen" their beliefs because we can't always tell by which party they go by.

You are right when you say "There are many good ways in the world of forensics and crime detection" to solve cases like the ones on this web site. The problem is that only local police departments have the authority to conduct such investigations. If for any reason (laziness, inaptitude, or a deliberate cover-up to protect the killers) police choose not to perform a thorough and/or honest investigation, there is no way for the victims' families to force them to do so.

That's what has occurred in most of these cases.

The facts are there but need to be brought to public attention. There are many people who love the ones that are gone and many prayers for the relatives of all who were killed. The facts need to be brought out in public and in a court of law. Now there are many good ways in the world of forensics and crime detection. There are many cold cases solved every week on T.V. May cases have been solved even after many years. There is hope in God for all to be solved.

Robert, Ben, and Lisa and all these young lives are so sad. You must trust in God that you will get the answers. In the mean time be the best person you can and by your actions people will listen .A few sites get very emotional and don't stick to the facts..you can't accuse people without facts.

FROM REAL CRIMES:

Michael Corwin, the private investigator for the Melanie McCracken, Stephanie Houston, Crystal Houston, Troy Pino and Gabino Gallegos cases (all of which are on this web site) is running on the Democratic ticket for New Mexico House Representative, District 31, in Albuquerque. He is running on a theme of victims' rights and rooting corruption out of government. Needless to say, he has our total support. Even the Republicans among us here at Real Crimes are stepping outside the box in this particular instance.

Mike's opponent, Greg Payne, had warrants out for his arrest for 15 months during his only term on the city council, as well as three ethics complaints. He has been arrested for domestic violence and for violating a restraining order and has been sued three times by his landlord for non-payment of rent. This is not a person who will be helpful to crime victims.

If you aren't eligible to vote in District 31, (north of Montgomery, east of Eubank, up to the county line, with the exception of Tanoan) but would still like to support Mike's campaign, contributions can be made to:

Citizens to Elect Michael Corwin
11024 Montgomery NE # 128
Albuquerque, NM 87111

I just read the report on Robert and Ben's murder...I am so sorry...what a nightmare! I am a friend of Ronda Reynold's mother..so we sure do know the reality of your story...and the helpless feeling when you are trying to fight the system. I will be praying for justice for you and your boys...don't give up! sometimes we feel like God puts everything on hold for awhile..then all of a sudden something comes to light. Just remember that He knows what happened...no one gets off scott free. Bless you ...stay strong...we all need strength to get to the truth!!

http://indylaw.indiana.edu/instructors/orentlicher/healthlw/Chap6B1.htm

Good morning everyone,
I just wanted to tell everyone that the good-old-boy network is quite strong and what chance does a woman have against the good-old-boys? I think I will just put it in the hands of God. The God of love. Roberta

The police talked to Lisa today due to my calling them about concerns and that John Moore needs to be questioned. The Sheriff and Chris Jarosinski came. They said the case is still closed and asked me what was to be done with the old car that had been in the impound yard for almost 11 years. I told the Sheriff I will talk to the detective and see what he says. Isn't sad that our law doesn't care for our precious children? They didn't even care to question him about the spent shell that he said he found in the kids riding lawnmower seat! And Mike McGee I do wonder how long he is practicing not to know what kind of gun was used! Do you think I am ready to call it quits????Not on your life!

Lisa's friend's mother won't let her daughter come over to my house to play with Lisa because I do not agree with the Watchtower teachings of fear!

Thanks for ranting Sharon,
They have absolutely no clue on loosing a child that way.
I had no clue my children's bodies were sent to Ramsey Medical Center for parts (eyes) Does anyone know how to get ahold of Mike McGee Pathologist?
I want to ask him some questions. Also by the way the parents of my daughter Lisa's J.W. friends wn't allow their children to come into my house.

This is Sharon, Gregg's Mom. I have to ask why do people always tell us that we have to get on with life, put it away, Gregg wouldn't want you to be like this, you've got to move on etc etc. I get up in the morning, I breath, eat, go to work, sleep, the same things everyone else does. Guess that would be getting on with life and moving on the best we can. Gregg knew that we would be like this. He knew him and his brother were loved more than anything else in this whole world. As far as put it away. What is that supposed to mean anyway? Where do we put it or do they mean that we have to forget Gregg even existed? What to hell does everyone expect from us? They want us to help others. We do try to help other victims, maybe not as much as Lois and other people in the world but we do try. The question for them is, What are they doing to help others? They don't have to deal with someone they have loved being murdered and then being walked all over by the very system that was supposed to help.

The next comment is usually, I can't imagine what you are going through but let me tell you if it had been my kid, I would have killed him right then and there.

I want to say to them, HOW DARE YOU? HOW DARE YOU COME TO ME WITH YOUR RELIGIOUS CRAP AND THEN TURN YOUR BACK ON US!!! HOW DARE YOU ASSUME THAT YOU LOVED YOUR CHILD MORE THAN WE DID!!!!

If anyone else is angry maybe it is time to let the rest of society know that unless this happens to them, they have no idea what they would do or how they would get on with it, so to speak.

Thanks for letting me rant. I do feel a little better now.

We know that in another day and another time we will see those we love so much. Those of us who have lost children deal so bad because that isn't supposed to happen. What we would like to have investigated is what actually happened and why. We need our questions answered-not just forgotten and called suicide. We really need to know the truth and then we know we can deal with it. The Bible promises two resurrections-a resurrection of the just and the unjust. Even though some have made serious mistakes and killed someone else there is hope with the Bible. They will get to live another time as a human baby under God's Kingdom. God promised that he will give them a new heart and remove their heart of stone. Some day all will be before the throne of God! There will be none lost.

As a parent I can only say that we have to hold on to the hope we once again will see our loved ones on the other side. But in this lifetime I don't know how one copes when justice is denied other than keep on fighting. It takes countless hours and finding the right person with the expertise and willingness to help you find the answers. There are good honest people in this world who if you can find them will help you. navigate your way. Some people just say let good of the pain and hurt and move on with your life but it's hard when you wake up in the dead of night with all the unanswered questions and the horror of what happened to your loved one. It especially must be devestating when it's a young life as it was in the case of your sons.

August 4, 2004 will be my baby boy's Birthday. Ben Moore would be 21 on this date. Birthdays are so painful and they keep coming. Not only Birthdays but the 11 year of their murders is coming August 30, 2004. Then on December 14, 2004 will be Roberts Birthday. Robert will be 25. How does one cope with such a loss and no answers and no justice?

Bill Heindl told me.

How did you find out it was Price County?

Good afternoon everyone,
I have an update on the double murder of my two chlldren Robert and Ben Moore. I found out it wasn't my X husband who donated my children's bodies to Ramsey Medical Center but the Coroner from Price County, Jim Dalbasio. No wonder there was no inquest on those two boys who were found murdered behind that old car on the recreational trail. Price County needs to have many inquests, as I have said before, into all the suspicious suicides that happen in Price County.

I would like to comment to Sharon. I too called Bob. He was supposed to call me back yesturday. I waited all day and got no response. I finally called back and left a message. No one ever called.

Gail, we did get a private investigator and we ended up paying an attorney to sue Padden for wrongful death. We did get some information but not $100,000. worth. That is what we ended up spending with everything. The PI was the worst investment of all. he showed us how to wire ourselves and to hide a camera in our house, that is about all we got out of him. If you want to do the same go to Radio Schack they can do the same thing for about $300. not $8,000 which is what we ended up paying him.

We have contacted many of the programs mentioned and they seem interested but we never get a date and then they just seem to forget about us. I guess murders and wrongful prosecution isn't that big of deal in the United States anymore.

This week I've taken a whole new look at things. Tuesday I got called in for a drug test, they came into my work, took me out under protest and forced me to take a drug test. I now have information to prove they have never done this to anyone but me. This is discrimination to the max and I am frightened. If they can cover up a murder of a boy then they can surely tamper with a drug test. I have been collectiing all the evidence I can against this drug test and have some pretty good things on tape from the phone calls I have made and received. They won't send me anything in writing and took my receipt for the test from me. I know taking the receipt from me, makes it null and void anyway. They can change things on the receipt and change the numbers to make sure they get a dirty test to coincide with the numbers. This incident happened the day after I had written to Bob McNaney. We are going to find out exactly why all this has happened to Gregg and us or die trying. BTW, on Monday I am quitting my job, I have sold out for too long. Trying to act like a good little girl in hopes someone will see that we are not the people they make us out to be. They have just created a monster and that would be me and Steve.

Did anyone ever consider or try to contact the media such as 60 minutes etc? Maybe 48 hours or someone would be glad to untruth the lies they are hiding. Reader from Seattle.

I was told by Bill Heindl that cremation records were destroyed in seven years. This is not so and I found a site to prove they can never be destroyed.
http://www.putrajaya.net.my/iis2/English/law/local_gov1976/Cremator.htm#9 Records shall NOT be destroyed! So Bill-let's come up with the cremation records for my two sons Robert and Ben Moore. Roberta

Hugs to you too Roberta. Keep fighting! Keep us all posted and God bless.
Gail

Today I called Bob. I had emailed him but hadn't heard back from him. He was very interested in what happened to my two sons Robert and Benjamin Moore. Thank you Gail for listing his number and email address. I am sorry for all the pain you and your family have had from trying to find elusive justice. It is good to have others who have gone through this to communicate with. We can all comfort each other and hopefully lighten the load for each one of us. I am glad you keep going and never quit. Sharon too. This is for everyone who can't seem to find any light in their cases. Bob is going to talk to me tomorrow! By the way in case you haven't guessed this is Roberta

I'm so glad you got a hold of Bob McNaney Sharon. I posted his number.

I hope Bob is able to look into the procedures at Ramsey County Medical Examiner's office. We have so many unanswered questions on how Ramsey County conducts autopsies. We just don't have the money to hire a private investigator to dig and press for the information. 2 1/2 years of legal bills and the expense of a jury trial have bankrupt us. We lost our business and are facing personal bankruptcy and the loss of everything we own. We fought for the truth and wouldn't give up. I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat. Medical Examiner's are not gods...they do make mistakes...they do cut corners.
Best wishes. I hope you find justice for your son. Hugs!
Gail....Justin's mom.

Thank you to the person or persons that put Bob McNaney's phone #s on this message board. I have been in contact with him this morning and hopefully there is a story worth doing here. Sharon aka Gregg's Mom

I would like to commit on statutes. Is it true that all cremation records are destroyed in seven years?

I am sorry for the evil that has become your family Sharon. There is no reason your beautiful boy should be dead and parts of him in jars in Ramsey Medical Center. My prayer is that there will be justice for Gregg and all the murdered children on the realcrime site! I would still like to see what that creep McGee looks like. I have a couple of really good physics and I would like to show them the picture. You said you have a picture of him from TV. If you have a digital camera would you mind taking a picture and sending it to me? Parts of my boys are in there too.

I would send a pic of Dr. Michael McGee but cannot find one on the net. I spent only one afternoon looking but only saw the articles about him.

Today is Gregg's golden birthday. We spent the day with a couple that are true friends. They helped us clean out Gregg's room. I found the bday card we had given him 7 years ago on his 18th bday less than six months before his murder.

Today was a very tough day but cleaning the room was a big hurdle for us. It is a bit empty in this house now and still whole lot of empty in our minds and souls.

Thank you to all that are brave enough to come forward to tell what they know about Dr. McGee. Hopefully someday we will know what happened to the rest of our son. My biggest fear is that they threw his organs away. I kept saying after his murder that everyone in law enforcement and the legal process treated Gregg like trash. I guess that is exactly what they thought he was. THEY ARE WRONG and we will prove it.

Many thanks to Lois and everyone that comes to this site. Lois and her husband have done everything in their power to help us and maybe someday we will get the only thing we have left to do for our son and that is to set the record straight on who and what he is and was.

One last thing I want to say HAPPY BIRTHDAY GREGG!!! We love you very very much. No one can throw that away.
Sharon Meissner aka Gregg's Mom

Our son was found innocent at a jury trial. The jury took about ten minutes to reach their decision. We had jury members contact us after the trial and tell us how they couldn't believe our son was even taken to trial. The deceased was a heavy drug abuser. He was fighting with everyone in the bar. He had stripped down to a stap undershirt even though it was 20 degrees below zero that night. The last person he was fighting with our son's friend a Marine home from Bosnia. The deceased had gotten the Marine's brother into drugs and they were exchanging words. The deceased and the Marine were told to take it outside by the bartender so they were heading out the door. The deceased was first out the door and the Marine would have been next but a girl grabbed him at the door and pulled him aside. My son and a group of kids were heading out the door. My son was now first out the door. The deceased headed towards him to hit him so my son defended himself and hit him once on the cheek as he came towards him. That was it. The kid went down and later died. Dr. Roe tried to say this one minor blow that didn't even show a bruise until lividity set in transected the vertebral artery causing massive bleeding in the brain. If this would have happened then antemortem thrombis would have formed which it didn't which Dr. Roe stated when asked by our pathologist. There are many questions from the autospy but what we really don't understand is how Dr. Roe after she has resigned from Ramsey County was able to take the autopsy materials from Ramsey County and tamper with them? Dr. Michael McGee was with our pathologist Dr. Friedlander when Dr. Friedlander viewed the autopsy materials and Dr. McGee knew what happened while Dr. Friedlander was at Ramsey County. Yet he lets Dr. Roe tamper with evidence. Why wasn't Dr. Roe observed when she handled the autopsy materials? There are many ethical questions and perhaps criminal actions were allowed to happen. We want to know what are the checks and balances for evidence held at Ramsey County Medical Examiner's Office. Why did Dr. Roe leave Ramsey County's employement? Were there issues with her work? Were there issues because we were challenging her autopsy? Who preserves the integrity of materials obtained during autopsy? What safeguards are in place? Did anyone check the autopsy materials before Dr. Roe took them out of Ramsey? Did anyone check them after she returned them? Who knew she took them from Ramsey? Did Dr. McGee know? The trial hadn't even started then, how can this have occured? The autopsy was done on Christmas eve and we fear it was short cut. The pictures from the autopsy stop with Dr. Roe removing the brain from the cavity. Yet she claims she photographed this transection of the vertebral artery. If she suspected a transection she should have used dye and photographed it. It is very difficult if not impossible to to see without careful investigation. This is a very complicated case but we hope someone will look into procedures at Ramsey County and see how the office is run. Maybe talk with former employees and find out what really goes on. Dr. Roe currently has a Bush Fellowship and is working at Regina Medical Center. She was an expert "paid" witness in the Kirby Puckett case...expertise for hire.

Thank you for your information on how to contact Bob Mcnaney. Can you tell me about your case that you had trouble with McGee and Roe.
I pray information will be revealed and that you can find closure and justice will be found for your son.

Bob McNaney
bmcnaney@kstp.com
Switchboard (651)646-5555
Newsroom (612) 588-6397
5 Eyewitness News/KSTP-TV
3415 University Ave.
Saint Paul, MN 55114-2099

We have his cell phone number but I have to find it.
Good Luck! We sent Bob over 2 pounds of material from our case. He also had someone else he was talking to.

I need information on how to contact Bob McNaney from TV KSTP in Minneapolis. Can anyone give me telephone number and address? I have a lot of questions to ask him as my two sons were murdered and the autoposies done by Michael McGee and my other son Robert had an autoposy done by Susan Roe.

Our family had an experience with Dr. Susan Roe and Dr. Michael McGee in the Ramsey County Medical Examiner's Office. (The website listed on the message board is not the correct Micheal McGee.)

We contend that Susan Roe did a Christmas Eve autopsy. She tried to say that a slight blow to a cheek caused a transection (important word)of the veterbral artery resulting in subarachnoid hemmorhage which resulted in death. We believe that she was so sure she knew what happened that she short cut the autopsy.The young man was a meth/cocaine drug user and we contend it was a drug death. He was fighting with everyone in the bar, took off his shirt before he went outside even though it was 20 below zero. A classic case of excited delirium.It's a very long complicated story but we obtained a nationally known pathologist Dr. Ed Friedlander(The Pathology Guy on the net) who took the case pro bono. Dr. Roe would not cooperate with sharing the information from the autopsy with Dr. Friedlander. Dr. Friedlander also asked Dr. Roe in a letter if she had observed any antemortem thrombis a pivotal question. Dr. Roe said she had not observed any antemortem thrombis which then proved to Dr. Friedlander that indeed the artery couldn't have been transected. We finally got a court order to obtain the material and all of a sudden Dr. Roe no longer worked at Ramsey County. She had resigned. Dr. Friedlander was then able to visit Ramsey County and view the autopsy materials always with someone present, including at one point Dr. McGee. Dr. Friedlander then discovered the vertebral artery had never been transected! He also commented on what a mangled mess the speciem was in due to a sloppy removal process. Now this is where it gets strange. Somehow Dr. Roe who was no longer employeed at Ramsey County is somehow able to come into Ramsey County and check out the autopsy materials. She then trys to photograph some probe in the artery which she says proves the artery was transected. Oh and now part of the artery comes up missing.

Bob McNaney from KSTP in Minneapolis is interested in finding out any information you might have on Dr. Susan Roe or Dr. Michael McGee. Please contact him if you have any experiences with Ramsey County Medical Examiner's Office. We have many questions. What protections do they have for preserving the integrity of autopsy materials? What evidence chain of command do they have? Who checks their work? What kind of staffing do they have? How can people(employees or former employees) take autopsy materials out of their facility that may potentially be evidence in a homicide case? Where these materials even signed in or out? Who is watching the Medical Examiner's?

The Ricky Dyer Jr. case needs it's own site.We need all the information to sort .

Obviously I decided not to have anything to do with tht stump family and their delusions and wrongful accusations.

Tell me more about the Michael McGee case. I am a writer looking for a good true story.

I believe Ricky Dyer Jr was murdered by his flatmate. I have written an article about the case (available through www.truecrimefanatic.com) or my own website (www.sclomax.g3z.com/main.html)

[S. C. Lomax]

Dear DG,
I am sorry to hear about your cousin. I would like to tell you that there are a lot of people on this site that care very much and would like to help. If you could write in the the site administator and tell him/her the details of her story it is quite possible someone may know something that will help solve this. No one should just be forgotten. (I am a mother too and I sure understand the pain of cases being covered up)

MY NAME IS DG MY COUSIN WAS MURDERED 10 YEARS AGO AND APD
DID SOME INVESAGATION BUT WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. THE PERSONS RESPONSABLE FOR HER MURDER HAVE NOT BEEN CAUGHT
.I FEEL THAT BECAUSE OF HER UNFORTINATE INVOLVEMENT IT SEEMS
LIKE SHE IS JUST ANOTHER PROBLEM OFF THE STREET. SHE WAS A MOTHER, DAUGHTER,SISTER AND A LOVING PERSON. I HOPE AND PRAY THAT MAYBE SOMEDAY HER CASE WOULD BE OPENED.

Re: Kaitlyn Arquette case:

On the home page, go to the blurb introducing the Kaitlyn Arquette case and click on the "Update: APD Cold Case Squad Reopen's Kait's Case." It took that family 15 years to make that happen. If this can happen with one case, it can happen for us all! We just have to keep hanging in there!

If you are really the daughter of Ms. Harris...why don't you use your name? Does anyone on this original web even know WHO Diana Harris is? Is her story on this web? No...your point? And, why don't you put your message on BOTH?

Mr. Web Master, It is better for everyone to know this and not just the Stumps who do not tell the truth.

The daughter of Diana Harris posted correctly the first time she posted, if it's really her she should enter that important message directly where it belongs. Not hiding behind no password needed to post.

Why is the person posting about Stump not using the Stump board directly? What else are they hiding?

Please inform Mrs. Stump that the Becker family has never gotten in touch with me nor threatened me.Thankyou, Daughter of Diane Harris

This is a wonderful site. I am so happy that I ran across it. I read a lot of things about Michael McGee. Does anyone know if this Michael McGee is the same man who is a pathologist for Ramsey Medical Center?
http://michaelmcgee.com/indexmain1.htm

At times, years later someone will come forward to tell what they know. When detectives leave the force, the neighborhood clears out of certain people, moving or dying comes is when it's easier to come forward and be direct with the complete truth.

Living a daily happy life can be a task when you have something on your mind as important as your own born son. It takes a toll on your private moments and can make things harder to keep living with some small happiness.

But never forget that things could come your way, that one person can make the difference, that hearts soften over time and keep praying that someone will have the courage to face the truth and shout it! They will be willing to go the one step more...

Keep up your faith in this case and smile when you think of your loved ones and all your great memories.

Your pal...

Natalie Wagner case: Michael Quigley, aka Michael Austin, is an officer in Mukwonago, WI. A number of citizens in that area have contacted the Wagners through this website to let them know of a number of instances when Austin has been harassing them, their family members and being heavy-handed in investigations. So far, complaints to the village chief and other officials have gotten no where.

Natlie Wagner case:
My name is Scott Krause I'm a Detective with the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Office I sort of remember hearing about this case when I started the job 10yrs ago please e-mail me at skrause5@wi.rr.com I would like to get some more info and see if it would be possible to start checking into this case with the approval of the bosses. At this time our Sheriff has a strong dislike for dirty cops. Which may help him agree with me.

Thank You, Scott Krause

From the Albuquerque Tribune, June 24, 2004

MAN NOT GUILTY OF HOMICIDE: DEAD WOMAN’S FATHER SAYS DA “THREW THE CASE”
By Joline Gutierrez Krueger

A jury declined to convict a Socorro man of purposely driving over his girlfriend with a truck trailer, but the dead woman's father says the fight isn't over.

Patrick Murillo, 42, was found not guilty Wednesday of vehicular homicide after a jury deliberated about two hours. Murillo - a married man, plumber and occasional musician - was accused of becoming enraged with Stephanie Houston the night of Feb. 27, 2000, at the Red Carpet Bar in Los Chavez, then crushing her under his trailer as she walked away from the bar south on N.M. 314. The trial, which began Monday, was moved to Grants from Valencia County under a change of venue motion. Murillo and his attorney, Thomas Esquibel, could not be reached for comment.

"We're disappointed with the decision of the jury, but we respect their decision," 13th District Attorney Lemuel Martinez said on behalf of prosecutor Joe Arite. "We're happy we brought this case to trial so that the defendant can go on with his life and the victim's family can try to find some closure, at least from a legal standpoint."

But Bill Houston said the case is far from closure. "The DA threw the case," Houston said from his home in Socorro. "He didn't call witnesses he should have called."

Albuquerque private investigator Mike Corwin, who worked on the case, agreed that those witnesses were crucial to a conviction. "While we must accept the jury's ruling, I believe that they would have found Patrick Murillo guilty had the jury heard testimony that Stephanie sought a restraining order against Murillo just two days prior to her death," Corwin said. Others would have testified about seeing Stephanie beaten a day before her death and taken to the hospital several times in the past after beatings, he said. Another witness was supposed to have testified that Stephanie had an appointment the next day at a battered women's shelter, Houston said.

But Martinez said the case was tried the best way it could be. "It's important to note that we had to present this case to a jury as soon as we could, given the length of time between when it happened and when it went to trial," he said. "It would not wait much longer."

Martinez agreed to reopen the case at Bill Houston's relentless urgings four years after his daughter's death. Before then, Bill Houston and Corwin said, officials had failed to look at the domestic violence that preceded the death of the 27-year-old convenience store clerk and single mother.

State Police had concluded that she had been killed accidentally when she tried to jump into Murillo's truck but fell. Their investigation was led by retired Lt. Mark McCracken, who has been suspected of killing his wife, Melanie, in 1995. A first-degree murder indictment against McCracken was thrown out on a technicality in May, but Special Prosecutor Randall Harris has vowed to seek a second indictment. A preliminary hearing is expected in November.

Bill Houston and Nancy Grice, Melanie McCracken's mother, collected petition signatures earlier this year seeking a grand jury investigation into allegations that government employees and others paid by the public improperly investigated both cases.
The petition was filed in April in Valencia County. A judge is expected to decide when to convene the grand jury.

Houston said he is prepared to take his daughter's case to a federal level. He also said charges against Murillo involving an unrelated crime also could be pending. And he vows that this case will be one of Arite's and Martinez's last.

"He might as well know he's out," Bill Houston said of Martinez, who is running for re-election this November. "They threw this case. They threw it big time."

Stephanie Houston Case.
Bill, I just read the verdict printed in the Albquerque Journal. I'm so sorry. There's no doubt in my mind that your beautiful daughter was murdered by this man. He may have gotten off in the court but he won't get by with it in the end. There will come a day of reckoning, he won't be able to get out of that one. Please know my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
I don't know how or when but, one day it will become known nation wide about the corrupt state of NM. Someone in a high office who can do something about it will stand up and take notice of how law enforcement can disregard evidence, destroy case files and evidence, close cases without fully investigating that they don't want to deal with, chalking them up to accidental deaths or suicides, favor friends or fellow cops who commit crimes and cover up for them. If just one of the 'BIG powers that be' would snap to the fact that this corruption right here in our own country lends itself to easy pickins for terrorists maybe then they will do something. It's almost like living in another country as far as how crimes are handled and how victims families are treated. Believe me, if our names were Kennedy, Heinze, Vanderbuilt or such, our cases would have been solved years ago. The troops from any and all forces would have been called out. Too bad the regular work-a-day folks don't warrant equal rights to justice.
My family sends their love to you and yours. We will keep praying that all our cases will see justice done.
(From: rosemarysherman@yahoo.com

I would like to comment on the Gregg Meissner case. I would very much like to see a picture of the coroner and pathologist Michael McGee. Could you possibly send me one Sharon?

I would like to comment on the case of my children Robert and Ben Moore. Even though I had the wrong Michael McGee it doesn't change the facts. I do not know if Michael McGee took my childrens organs but I do know that I have no clue where their bodies are. I also know noone has any cremation permits as I called both the Coroner Jim Dalbasio and Heindl's funeral Home and my lawyer called the Rhinelander crematorium and they have no records. The Hillside Cemetary also has no records. How many other people have no idea what happened to their loved ones bodies?

I knew Diane Harris and would like to get in touch with her daughter.How? Big pine Key

Response:You may send a personal e-mail c/o the Real Crimes web site.

From the Webmaster: Please, post messages about the Tom Stump Case on the Tom Stump message board. Otherwise they will be deleted.

To Kait Arquette's mom, Lois Duncan,

I heard your talk at the conference and was blown away. I definitely want a copy of it. And not just because you wrote I Know What You Did Last Summer. Your talk contained everything all of us want to express.

from a long-time fan of your teenage suspense novels who is also a homicide servivor

Janet

From Lois Duncan Arquette (mother of Kaitlyn Arquette, whose case is on this web site):

A catch-up note for those with an interest in what transpired at the New Mexico Survivors of Homicide Conference in Albuquerque last week.

The conference was very well organized but emotionally overwhelming, with so much grief and anger confined in one room. About 150 people attended. About half were Native American, caravanning in from the Navajo Reservation and the pueblos. Those participants were disappointed that there were no members of the FBI or BOIA on the panels. I'm sure that will be remedied next year.

If any of you want a copy of my keynote talk, send an e-mail c/o Real Crimes, and they will send you a copy as an e-mail attachment. Mine was the first presentation of the day and set the tone for the rest of the conference. Everybody was primed to pummel the law-enforcement panel with challenging questions, which many of them neatly ducked, but a few expressed willingness to consult with the families personally at a later time. The representatives from the Office of the Medical Examiner seemed particularly receptive.

There was a vacancy in the judges' panel, because Chief Judge John Brennan was arrested on Memorial Day for drunk driving and possession of cocaine.

For those of you who attended -- it was wonderful seeing you there. For those New Mexico homicide survivors who couldn't make it -- please, consider attending next year. NMSOH is a good organization, and I believe they have the ability to accomplish things that few of us can accomplish alone. For those survivors out-of-state -- you might want to look into the possibility of organizing a similar function in your own area.

And -- for those of you who care, but are lucky enough not to be eligible for this organization -- please, keep us all in your prayers.

Lois Duncan Arquette

I would like to comment on the Price County case. Seems there is a gag order out. Seems if anyone who works for the county talks to the media they will be fired! I do wonder what they are trying to hide!

I see where the whistle-blower newsletter/website, The Twisted Badge, has launched a new series of articles titled “Corruption in New Mexico.” Will they be featuring cases from the Real Crimes site?

Response:We've given them permission to do so if they choose to.

You need to go through your web documents. I noticed one person's office police statement has his name and social security number ...identity thief....Nevada case.

Connie,

Is there evidence that he didn't commit suicide? What do you think really happened to him.

I was really glad to see this site. In 1997 my Uncle was found to have commited suicide.
This was in a small town in Dickson TN. I have tried for the past seven years to get someone to listen to my story.
What do you have to do?
I guess you must wait until someone else gets hurt and maybe they will listen.
If anyone has any suggestions as to where to complain, and who will listen I would be glad to know.
Thank you

Connie

A STEP FORWARD IN THE TROY PINO CASE:

New Mexico's Fourth Judicial District has approved a public petition to convene a grand jury to "investigate the allegations of battery, malfeasance, conspiracy, falsifying records, evidence tampering, failing to prosecute, dereliction of duty, civil rights violation and any other illegal acts committed by any individual of the Santa Rosa Police Department, or individuals associated with the battery and prosecution thereof, in its relationship and/or contribution to the death of Troy Pino."

Re: NATALIE WAGNER CASE I am now a citizen where Mr. Austin is a police officer. I am outraged by the fact that I am paying a murderer to protect and serve me. My family and I have been repeatly harrassed by Mr. Austin. He has threated my brother and made it so that his girlfriend and I can barely sleep at night. We rarely go out at night by ourselves. Which is hard due to the fact that she has to be to work early in the morning. My brother girlfriend and her sister bare a resemblence to Natalie. And when we were told about Natalie's story on this web site we were totally shocked. Sense then I tell everyone who will listen Natalie's story. We have are already in the proccess of seeking Legal counsel because of the harrassment. Feel free to contact me at JoAngel@wi.rr.com Danielle